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DC Crew
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
QUOTE:

"If you've been looking for information in chat rooms and forums, it's no wonder you are confused. I've found most of these areas of the internet to be the biggest sources of misinformation this side of a government agency.

Half the people posting are misinformed, and the other half are either shills for competing companies or under-acheivers who post just to see their identities in print.

Most people who know what they're talking about don't stay involved very long because they get tired of dealing with idiots."

Author: Dave Emanuel, Corvette Fever Magazine.
December 2003 issue, Page 80 2nd paragraph.
[email protected]

So, what do you think about what he said?
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
My question... if forums suck... then where are people supposed to go for information?

Forums are not perfect. Mainly because humans have something to do with it. But, with any information, you take it, and make your own decision.

Is he implying that we should call the MANUFACTURER for tech questions before buying their product? They'll just tell you how EASY the install is... and the bogus toted HP gain... anything to get the sale.

Or, should we try to find one of the best Corvette mechanics, and see if he'll sit down with you for an hour at his shop and waste his time to discuss your technical questions?

GIMME A BREAK!
 

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Some one must go to CF. I bet hes never been here. We dont have any misinformation here.:thumbsup:
 

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Not to worry, there is nothing wrong w/ forums. It's just another case of Dave the prick sticking his foot in his mouth again. Look at this thread, 4th post down first line.http://digitalcorvettes.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=4678

If you go through your past CF issues, you'll get the idea that everyone is stupid b/c we have to ask him for the answer, like we're supposed to know as much as him. :rolleyes:
 

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Some of what he says is true, if you go to that other forum and ask a technical question you'll probably get 85 different answers. It's up to the person posting the question to sift through the answers, through the BS and use his judgement and the history of the poster to decide on which direction to take. When I've asked questions over there, I used the replies as a starting point and did a little research myself to see if they are correct.

Sometimes all you need is to be pointed in the right direction, but to blindly believe someone that you don't know that just happens to reply to a forum is nuts.
 

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alot of what he said is true.he shouldn't say all forums.there's two that are great.this one and corvette mechanic.com.those are all master vette mechanic's.(not much of a bs forum)
but he's probably upset because his pile of questions is getting really small because no one want's his advise,there going to the forum's.i love that mag-but dude has to go....

:smokin:
 

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I think he is talking about Mustangforums not Digital Corvettes!:partyon:
 

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When I decided to subscribe to a mag I had my choice between Corvette Fever and Corvette Magazine. I picked Corvette Magazine on a coin toss. I am really happy with it. The only downside is it's bi-monthly. If Corvette Fever is going lame switch over. There is another choice.

I too think the mags are taking a hit from the digital age. Used to be the only info you could get was from magazines or idle talk at the local hot rod shop. With the internet and forums like this one among others, who need's magazines any more. They are biased to the supporting advertisers and somewhat limited in how much they can put out in one month. On the forum you get instant answers to your questions. You can hear many different views on the same subject, and it all happens in the period of a few days. You dont have to wait for next months issue. Granted there is still some missinformation out there but such is life. Take the good with the bad and sort it out for yourself.

Magazines will always have a place. In the bin next to the pot for me. Nothing like fifteen minutes of relaxation and a good read!
 

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That guy can suck ass, I cancelled my Corvette Fever subscription a long time ago cause I think their magazine pretty much sucks, each issue seemed to get thinner and the content was really bad, like they were just looking for something to print even if it sucked.

I get alot more info from the forums, sure there are some friggin idoiots on some of these boards but I deal with idiots everyday whether its on the computer or in the flesh
 

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Originally posted by Arnie ...<br>
Some of what he says is true, if you go to that other forum and ask a technical question you'll probably get 85 different answers. It's up to the person posting the question to sift through the answers, through the BS and use his judgement and the history of the poster to decide on which direction to take. When I've asked questions over there, I used the replies as a starting point and did a little research myself to see if they are correct.

Sometimes all you need is to be pointed in the right direction, but to blindly believe someone that you don't know that just happens to reply to a forum is nuts.<br>

:agree:


Well put Arnie!

Some minds are weak. They will not figure things out on thier own. They are followers.

On some aspects I would have to agree with Dave Emanuel. A lot of forums are just trash. It doesn't matter if it is a Gi Joe forum or a Corvette forum. You are reading peoples opinions. And you know what they say about opinions..
 

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Originally posted by Patrick96LT4 ...<br>
QUOTE:

"If you've been looking for information in chat rooms and forums, it's no wonder you are confused. I've found most of these areas of the internet to be the biggest sources of misinformation this side of a government agency.

Half the people posting are misinformed, and the other half are either shills for competing companies or under-acheivers who post just to see their identities in print.

Most people who know what they're talking about don't stay involved very long because they get tired of dealing with idiots."

Author: Dave Emanuel, Corvette Fever Magazine.
December 2003 issue, Page 80 2nd paragraph.
[email protected]

So, what do you think about what he said?<br>
The best thing about the Internet is the ability to access information rapidly.

The worst thing about the Internet is the ability to access information rapidly.

Sound paradoxical? It's not. Most of the information on the Internet is posted without the typical requirements for source citation and fact checking that you find in print media (books and magazines). Someone posted a reply to this thread stating a very obvious truth which is that's it's up to the individual to evaluate the information using a number of criteria. Does the author's work contain misspellings, poor grammar, incorrect capitalization, and improper punctuation? If so he's either lazy, poorly educated, of low intelligence, or all three. Are you actually going to risk money or life and limb on that information? Some people will, because they are poorly educated, lazy, of low intelligence, or all three. Others will seek additional sources and compare and contrast the information contained therein and draw a more reasoned conclusion.

Anyone who has submitted a term paper in high school knows that when you quote some fact or statistic you need to have a footnote to a citation that allows the reader to check your source of information. The reader can then evaluate the source independently and determine whether you have performed due diligence in checking your facts.

Is every printed source of information always 100% accurate 100% of the time. No. But the lead-times involved in printed sources allow far more time for fact checking than the typical response to a forum posting. Errors that crop up in printed sources are usually the result of the deadline for publication under which the author is working. And not everyone will be selected to be a source of information. The criteria to get something published in print media are much more rigorous than on the Internet, where anyone with a keyboard can pound out an opinion.

When you factor in the type of questions people ask on forums you get a sense of the magnitude of the problem. As an example, a forum member posts the following question:

"Can someone post everything I need to know about setting up a race car?"

In the old days of the Internet (in the 1980's for all you X-gen people) a post like that in a Usenet newsgroup would have generated a "Read the FAQ file" response, and maybe a flame or two. No one would have even attempted to answer a question so broad from a person who obviously was not interested in doing any independent research. But today, the owners of forums (eager to attract more members) go out of their way to attempt to placate these people. Despite the fact that they are probably trolls.

From a practical standpoint, how would one approach answering that question? Probably by replying with "What type of racing are you doing?" as a starter. Some people might post links to other sites that have specific information. But keep in mind that if the person who originally posted the question had any brains, ambition, or personal pride, they would have done some preliminary research on their own and would not have expected others to do their work for them. They will not follow the links, and if they do the chances are good they won't spend time trying to actually comprehend the material presented.

If the person was serious about wanting setup information they would have asked a specific question such as "Will using a smaller diameter rear anti-roll bar increase under-steer?". A specific question has a more managable scope which will be more likely to attract a meaningful response.

Corvette Fever may not be my favorite publication but that does not mean that they do not publish useful information. And in the case of the author and article cited you have to remember that it's an opinion being stated, and not some law of nature. He thinks the Internet is a poor source of information. Is that always true? No. I've gotten some very valuable information in a timely manner from various Internet-based sources. But anyone who thinks that if they read it on the Internet it must be true is a fool. Emanuel is more right than wrong if he's saying that there is more misinformation out there than there is useful information. In engineering terms this is referred to as a poor signal-to-noise ratio.

Reading is a rapidly disappearing skill in our culture. Simply using a computer won't be much help if one is unable or unwilling to read and work to comprehend.

Caveat emptor.

Oh, and by the way, in case it's not obvious, the above is my opinion, and not an immutable law of nature.
 

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Dave Emanuel:huh: Who made him God?:huh:

Don't worry about it.:cheers:
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Ray,

There are no absolutes, and I think you know this. There are a lot of people that are new to the internet (trust me, I get 20 digitalcorvette e-mails a day that are from people who JUST got a computer for the first time, and have been using the internet for a week). It's not fair to think everyone has mastered google, and can do much research or find much information. A Corvette site is like an oasis to a newbie.

Forums are more like a bunch of folks hanging out. This is not a Q&A board, it's a collaboration and mingling too. There are far more enthusiasts here than experts. I don't think it's wrong to share what you heard on another forum... or from some other source (person).

As far as typo's, spelling mistakes, bad grammar, lack of punctuation or spelling, I'm GUILTY as charged. But, I write perfectly to my clients, and I send no less than 100 e-mails per day, and I sweat over every sentence. I'm not out to impress anyone here, I'm off duty - and this is far too casual of an atmosphere to wear a suit and tie.

I don't think percieved english skills (look at GrumpyVette) have much, if anything to do with the credibility of what they share. I think that is an unfair assessment. And, some of the most brilliant people I have ever encountered are uneducated.

I grew up on the wrong side of the tracks. I have only a high-school education and just barely graduated with a "D" average.... yet I am a member of the Mensa High-IQ society (seriously).

I'll sit at a conference room table and you'd think I have an MBA (I've been asked to guest lecture MBA classes). So "education" again does not relate to intelligence or mechanical wisdom.

I'm rambling now, but I think the Corvette Fever guy is not helping anything. See my immediate reply to the first post.:thumbsup:
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Originally posted by RT66Z06 ...<br>
Where is it written that he has to help?<br>
The magazine, and the man (an agent of the magazine) imply that they are experts (or close) in the field of Corvettes. (In a court of law, that goes a long way).

Clearly the point of his monthly column is to give responsible information or feedback. Yet, his diatribe was silly considering he gave no one an ALTERNATIVE as to where to seek expert information.

And, he's a joke if he thinks he's some authority, or that their magazine responses are always correct and trustable.

For instance, in this issue of Corvette Fever, columnist Chris Petris stated on page 93 that "all factory six-speed cars at 70 MPH rim 1,200 RPM in 6th gear". This is totally false! And, will make the man who wrote the letter, and god knows how many 6-speed Corvette owners think their car has a non-factory gearset!

I also have a hundred page Corvette historical book (coffee table book) done by a respect automotive journalist that gave me a good laugh when he talked about the ZR1 convertible and what the retail price was compared to the coupe.:rolleyes:
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Oh, one more thing...

Corvette Fever's very own forum (I guess their forum doesn't apply to Dave's comments) states:

"Welcome to our forum area! Use this section of the site to learn valuable information, trade tips, or just talk about the magazine. "

So, I guess you can get valuable information from a Corvette Forum.

Also Dave says "Half the people posting are misinformed, and the other half are either shills for competing companies or under-acheivers who post just to see their identities in print."

So, which 50% applies to the Corvette Fever rep prowling their forum trying to answer questions?
 

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I think the thing you have to remember with forums is that what might be easy to me could be hard for you. You amight not have the tools or space I have to do the work that is for you to decide. Take all the advise (call it what you want all it is is advise) you want then decide if you can handle the project. If there is a mechinal problem again take it for what it's worth and move one. I am so tired of these so called experts who think there **** doesn't stink becouse they write for a big mag.
Hey Dave and Corvette Fever you can blow me you will never see a penny of my money.:finger:
 

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Originally posted by Patrick96LT4 ...<br>
The magazine, and the man (an agent of the magazine) imply that they are experts (or close) in the field of Corvettes. (In a court of law, that goes a long way).

Clearly the point of his monthly column is to give responsible information or feedback. Yet, his diatribe was silly considering he gave no one an ALTERNATIVE as to where to seek expert information.

And, he's a joke if he thinks he's some authority, or that their magazine responses are always correct and trustable.

For instance, in this issue of Corvette Fever, columnist Chris Petris stated on page 93 that "all factory six-speed cars at 70 MPH rim 1,200 RPM in 6th gear". This is totally false! And, will make the man who wrote the letter, and god knows how many 6-speed Corvette owners think their car has a non-factory gearset!

I also have a hundred page Corvette historical book (coffee table book) done by a respect automotive journalist that gave me a good laugh when he talked about the ZR1 convertible and what the retail price was compared to the coupe.:rolleyes:<br>
First, I too read the incorrect assertion that all 6-speed cars turn 1,200 rpm in 6th gear at 70mph. I think I posted a photo of my own car turning 1,725 rpm at 71 mph. And as I said in my post not everything you read in published sources is accurate all the time. Even the great Homer sleeps, as the Greeks used to say.

I would have to check (I don't have a current issue of CF handy and I think the ones I do have do not feature Emanule's column) but it's possible that the column is more of an OP-ED piece than an article in the journal Nature. I.e., it's more his opinion than a statement of proven, or even arguable fact.

But I guess I should have addressed the central theme of your reply, which, if I understood it correctly, was almost an advocacy of affirmative-action for the semi-literate. You can't on one hand (well, I guess you can, this is America) argue that he's wrong for saying essentially that the signal-to-noise ratio on forums is not good, and simultaneously rationalize bad information on the forums with the notion that it's just a place to hang out, and it's informal.

And I'm sorry, but material that's hard to read because the spelling is poor, the punctuation confusing, and there is no sentence structure only detracts from the overall signal-to-noise ratio. And I'm not talking about the obvious joking around that occurs (which is, for the most part, thoroughly entertaining. e.g., Loggins1's advice to a first time racer: "Keep your stick on the ice!" was unfortunately lost on some, although it was very clever). I'm talking about material that may in fact be accurate but is so difficult to wade through as to be nearly useless (notice I didn't use the word worthless). The goal should be excellence, not dumbing-down the medium.

And informal or not, what positive effect on the Corvette hobby (or Lifestyle, or whatver it's called) do comments such as "the wing should be used to crush the owners head" have? If your concern is for new computer users one would think that a neophyte reading that would be in the least deterred from contributing, and at worst appalled. There was one thread I waded through that convinced me that sooner or later the thread particpants would break out in a chorus of the Horst Wessel Lied. Perhaps that wasn't their intent, but it would be easy for someone, especially a newbie, to draw that inference. The divisiveness was palpable. When the level of discourse gets that low it plays into the hands of the detractors, like the guy from CF who may have his own agenda (your subsequent inclusion of the quote from the CF web site should make the CF editorial staff cringe if they have a shred of professional integrity).

Finally, you said in another thread that if you make movies you'll have to deal with movie critics (I'm paraphrashing here). I would think that if that's applicable in the other context, it's equally applicable here. You created a forum. Now you get to deal with the critics.
 
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