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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Looks like a murder to me... :huh: Video is in link.

by KING 5 News

KING5.com

Posted on December 17, 2010 at 4:49 PM

Updated Friday, Dec 17 at 4:50 PM

The dash cam video picks up just before Officer Birk exits his patrol car. You see a person cross the street from left to right, then John T. Williams is seen crossing and goes out of view. When Officer Birk steps out of his patrol car, his personal radio microphone switches on.

Officer Birk: "Hey, Hey, Hey. Put the knife down, put the knife down, put the knife down."

(Shots fired) Bang, bang, bang, bang, bang.

Officer Birk radios in: "Unit 33. Shots fired Boren and Howell. Subject wouldn't drop the knife."

Dispatcher: "Shots fired. Boren and Howell...."

Further radio transmissions can then be heard.

Then, a faint woman's voice can be heard saying, "He didn't do anything."

Officer Birk can be heard saying "Ma'am, he had a knife and he wouldn't drop it."

The radio dispatcher asks for a status report.

Officer Birk answers, "Under control. Subject is down."

Dispatcher: "Copy. Subject is down."

When other officers arrive, Birk can be heard saying:

"He had the knife open. I approached him. I asked him to drop it multiple times. He wouldn't drop it and he turned towards me."

Other officers can then be heard talking among as they deal with the scene.

Then, in response to an officer asking if he's ok, Birk says:

"Yeah, I'm fine."

The officer asks "he just had a knife?"

Birk: "Yeah, he had it out. He was carving it up, carving up that board, with it open. I approached him, and the tool (?), I instructed him to drop it multiple times. He wouldn't do it."

Other officer: "Good job."

Birk: "Yeah."

http://www.king5.com/video/featured...lice-officer-involved-shooting-112105254.html
 

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I generally give the cops the benefit of the doubt because of the burden of having to make snap decisions that could save an innocent life. We can't see the person with the knife or know if he made a threatening move, but there sure aren't many seconds between the order to drop the knife and the sound of shots. Unless the guy made a threatening move with his body and/or the knife, this doesn't seem justified to me. The fact that a witness said "He didn't do anything", leads me to believe he didn't lunge at the officer or anything.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
You determined that by listening to the officer tell a man to drop a knife?
No, I determined that by the bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang within 7 seconds of the first "Drop the knife" on a busy city street in down town Seattle, in broad daylight. A man whittling on a piece of wood while walking down the street and a badged thug looking for action, shooting the hell out of him.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
I generally give the cops the benefit of the doubt because of the burden of having to make snap decisions that could save an innocent life. We can't see the person with the knife or know if he made a threatening move, but there sure aren't many seconds between the order to drop the knife and the sound of shots. Unless the guy made a threatening move with his body and/or the knife, this doesn't seem justified to me.
If you listen close on the video, you can hear a female witness say "he didn't do anyhting".
 

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If you listen close on the video, you can hear a female witness say "he didn't do anyhting".
Yeah, I added that to my post, too. You wouldn't think she would say that if the man lunged at the officer.
 

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and a badged thug looking for action, shooting the hell out of him.
That's the second time you've made the thug comment, you obviously have issues with the police for whatever reason. Bottom line, you weren't there..... but you're a great Monday morning quarterback. :rolleyes:
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
That's the second time you've made the thug comment, you obviously have issues with the police for whatever reason.
I take issue with a badged thug, shooting 5 times on a busy street in broad daylight, killing one and terrorizing countless others, for no apparent reason. Cops are just a reflection of society, good and bad always go together. But what kind of dipshit training teaches a cop to open fire on a busy street, in the middle of the day? The guy would have had to be within 5' of the cop to be a serious threat.

Bottom line, you weren't there..... but you're a great Monday morning quarterback. :rolleyes:
No, just someone who don't think cops should be able to walk around killing people without very justifiable reasons.. 7 seconds from "Drop the knife" to bang bang bang bang bang.. hardly takes a rocket scientist to do that math. :rolleyes:
 

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Grey Squirrel
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No, just someone who don't think cops should be able to walk around killing people without very justifiable reasons.. 7 seconds from "Drop the knife" to bang bang bang bang bang.. hardly takes a rocket scientist to do that math. :rolleyes:
Do you know how much distance a person can cover in 7 seconds? Obviously not.....I'll continue to give the benefit of the doubt to the officers until a court says otherwise, I wasn't there and won't pass judgement on another's action based soley on the limited facgts available publicly.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Do you know how much distance a person can cover in 7 seconds? Obviously not.....I'll continue to give the benefit of the doubt to the officers until a court says otherwise, I wasn't there and won't pass judgement on another's action based soley on the limited facgts available publicly.
About 20-25'. Depending on height, stride.

The cop clearly said "he turned towards me" not "He turned and ran at me". He won't get indicted, he will probably get a medal.

in Afghanistan, the ROE's are tougher than most of the big cities.. they have to get shot at to take a guy out, but here all you gotta do is walk down the road with a knife or set on some steps with a buzz and a garden sprayer..:rolleyes:
 

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Grey Squirrel
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About 20-25'. Depending on height, stride.

The cop clearly said "he turned towards me" not "He turned and ran at me". He won't get indicted, he will probably get a medal.
And if you bothered to look at some of the eyewitness accounts that said the man was about 5'-8' feet from the officer when he turned you'd understand why the officer fired. I don't know if he was right or wrong but I certainly won't sit here and castigate him without knowing all the facts.

BTW, the average person can run 40 yards in 7 seconds....that's 120 feet. Let's say the person was really out of shape and can only run 20 yards in 7 seconds.... that's still 60 feet.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
And if you bothered to look at some of the eyewitness accounts that said the man was about 5'-8' feet from the officer when he turned you'd understand why the officer fired. I don't know if he was right or wrong but I certainly won't sit here and castigate him without knowing all the facts.
The cop knew he had a knife.
The cop was closing the distance.
The cop was yelling at the man from behind.
The cop made the decision to kill him for responding to the cop's yelling.

I would think the guy walking down the street minding his own business would get the benefit of the doubt. You obviously don't agree with that. I seen/read/heard nothing in witness reports that indicated the man was a threat to the officer. Neither did you.
 

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Grey Squirrel
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I seen/read/heard nothing in witness reports that indicated the man was a threat to the officer. Neither did you.
What I said was had you bothered to read eyewitness accounts that put the subject between 5-8 feet away from the officer you'd understand why he fired..... So don't put a spin on what I wrote or what I read or didn't read.

The second witness reports that she saw Williams walking away and then turn around. “He (Williams) turned around and he wasn’t very far from the officer, maybe somewhere between 5 to 8 feet."
http://www.nwcn.com/news/Police-tapes-provide-inside-look-at-woodcarver-shooting-110013324.html
 

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What's ridiculous? Questioning the actions of a cop shooting a guy to death on a busy city street in broad daylight? :rolleyes:
Questioning? You've been making 'determinations' off subtleties. Now that's ridiculous without knowing full details, accounts and being familiar with incident-based protocol and training in such situations. All these things need to be addressed when investigating the incident... you know, before any one is determined to be guilty.

Why are you so hung up on "broad daylight"? :rolling:

You know crime doesn't just work night shift, right? It also doesn't always wear black ski masks and tiptoe around to cartoon music.
 

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Grey Squirrel
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We may not have all the facts, but it looks like the Seattle PD does:

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2013160320_shooting15m.html
I read that article earlier and one statement stands out. A firearms review board such as that looks at the actions of the officer based on departmental policy not based on the law. So while the officer can be found to be in violation of department policy his actions can still be justified under the law. If found in violation of department policy the officer can be subject to departmental discipline.

But the department's review is considered a separate administrative proceeding that can be used to determine if an officer violated department policy and whether additional training is needed.
 
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