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Discussion Starter #1
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20101008/ap_on_bi_go_ec_fi/us_economy;_ylt=Ak6wS8yRnKTjcRxPZzKgKFys0NUE;_ylu=X3oDMTFlY2QzZjFyBHBvcwM5OQRzZWMDYWNjb3JkaW9uX2J1c2luZXNzBHNsawNlY29ub215bG9zZXM-


"A net total of 159,000 government jobs were lost in September. Local governments cut 76,000 jobs last month, most of them teachers. That's the largest cut by local governments in 28 years. About 77,000 temporary federal census jobs ended and state governments shed 7,000 jobs.

The cuts reflect the toll the recession is taking on state and local government budgets. Falling home values are just beginning to push down local governments' property tax revenues. Most state and local governments are required to balance their budgets, which means drops in revenue are forcing cuts in services."



more......
 

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Govt union jobs like teachers, police and firemen are next on the chopping block.




Hope that's what was expected by conservatives and tea baggers.

Smaller govt.
Your voices at work.:thumbsup:

The numbers will only be larger after 2012.:thumbsup:
 

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Govt union jobs like teachers, police and firemen are next on the chopping block.

Hope that's what was expected by conservatives and tea baggers.

Smaller govt.
Your voices at work.:thumbsup:

The numbers will only be larger after 2012.:thumbsup:
"Let he who is without sin, cast the first stone"?

Who is being insulting now?

As far as teachers and the education system in general losing jobs...

The general public has lost many more jobs and the tax revenue isn't there to pay for these government jobs.

As far as justification of the layoffs, have a view of "Waiting For Superman."

In spite of the fact that we spend more than twice as much to educate each student, we rank 23rd, near the bottom of the developed nations, in student proficiency.

I guess you can look at it as an 'adjustment' and how did Obama put it?... "We're all going to have to have some 'skin' in the game.'

The other positions, police, firefighters, etc. are also victims of governemtn waste, bloat, and overpromising.

The NJ Firefighters pension fund is $180 Billion in the red and getting worse. That's just one state.

How'd that happen?

The conservatives and tea baggers didn't do it. They are just trying to find a way to make it work.
 

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Govt union jobs like teachers, police and firemen are next on the chopping block.




Hope that's what was expected by conservatives and tea baggers.

Smaller govt.
Your voices at work.:thumbsup:

The numbers will only be larger after 2012.:thumbsup:
So the Dems master plan is more government employees with job security right? Please explain how you would see this happen? How do you take enough taxes (from the government employees) to pay the wages of the government employees (we we all work for the government in some way):crazy:

My next question is, where did all the government employees come from just a couple of years ago? the moon? my guess whith all the expansion of government these people all came from the private sector and where making a living not being in government. I guess now thats what they will have to back too (mind boggling ain't it)

Here's another solution which the Dems can not grasp. Government does not produce anything all it does is produce dependants of government. Now If government was sacled back, restrictions on business opened up, regulations made more competitive (as in line with our compeditors) quit assuming that the rich are just a cash cow for government programs and allow business people do what buisness people do (YES become richer while expanding business and hiring workers who in return buy goods and services) This country will and cannot survive with owners of business being chased out of country and expect to just have factorys with workers here. My first example is NASA... with out the US being the world leader in space technology where will it leave us 20 years down the road. Just look at the products that are made today that can all be traced back to NASA
 

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I think you misunderstand the "smaller government" mantra.

As in controlling more of our lives and money. A new department here and there for regulating this and that. And I would think most conservatives think Federal government more than local government. Local governments are usually the last to feel the effect of falling tax revenues. Local governments don't go into debt to the tune of trillions of dollars. Locals can't lay out laws of the land. Sounds like there are some angry liberals out there because the hero and rock star has been a total flop. :partyon:
 

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So the Dems master plan is more government employees with job security right? Please explain how you would see this happen? How do you take enough taxes (from the government employees) to pay the wages of the government employees (we we all work for the government in some way):crazy:

My next question is, where did all the government employees come from just a couple of years ago? the moon? my guess whith all the expansion of government these people all came from the private sector and where making a living not being in government. I guess now thats what they will have to back too (mind boggling ain't it)

Here's another solution which the Dems can not grasp. Government does not produce anything all it does is produce dependants of government. Now If government was sacled back, restrictions on business opened up, regulations made more competitive (as in line with our compeditors) quit assuming that the rich are just a cash cow for government programs and allow business people do what buisness people do (YES become richer while expanding business and hiring workers who in return buy goods and services) This country will and cannot survive with owners of business being chased out of country and expect to just have factorys with workers here. My first example is NASA... with out the US being the world leader in space technology where will it leave us 20 years down the road. Just look at the products that are made today that can all be traced back to NASA
The plan has to be a very long term plan. Yes there are too many government employees but if you get rid of them all at one time we go into a depresion that we may never get out of. If we do it slowly just as this problem was created the economy can absorb them into the private sector. But to absorb them into the private sector, you have to have a private sector that is increasing in size. The reason that government employement has been increasing is that the private sector has been moving jobs overseas and the government, both conservative and liberal, has been replacing those jobs with government jobs to keep the unemployement rate low. Those private sector jobs have gone mainly to china and india. They move those jobs there because of the extremely low wages, and the very favorable and artificialy low montery exchange. Unless you can lower wages in this country to the 2 or 3 dollars a day that China and India pay you cannot create private sector jobs here. Unless you remove the incentive for US companies to send jobs overseas in the first palce.
 

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And here I thought Union wages and business taxes were a major contributor to moving jobs overseas.
 

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Just so you know at the end of september the national park service let go of almost all seasonal park rangers and that is probably where a very large chunk of the figures to mention come from. the park that I worked at had about 100 seasonals that were let go at the end of september.


I never mentioned it but I had a job as a park ranger working for the National park service and at the end of september I was let go like everyone else.

You picked stats from the worst month of the year.
 

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And here I thought Union wages and business taxes were a major contributor to moving jobs overseas.
Union wages are high, to be sure but a major factor in moving jobs overseas is mainly the huge difference in our costs of living. What is poverty here is very rich in China. Businesses that sell here still pay business taxes.
 

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The NJ Firefighters pension fund is $180 Billion in the red and getting worse. That's just one state.
Because the govt has not been putting money in it as it was supposed to. Pushing the bomb to the next govt.

In France there is the same debate going on, if the govt was putting the money it is supposed to into social security, it wouldn't be negative.

As an example, politicians put a tax on cigarettes claiming it would go to social security because smokers have health issues. Only problem being that tax money never ever goes to SS.

a++ Cedric
 

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Union wages are high, to be sure but a major factor in moving jobs overseas is mainly the huge difference in our costs of living. What is poverty here is very rich in China. Businesses that sell here still pay business taxes.

Its not even the wages so much as it is the benefits and legacy costs.
 

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Because the govt has not been putting money in it as it was supposed to. Pushing the bomb to the next govt.

In France there is the same debate going on, if the govt was putting the money it is supposed to into social security, it wouldn't be negative.

As an example, politicians put a tax on cigarettes claiming it would go to social security because smokers have health issues. Only problem being that tax money never ever goes to SS.

a++ Cedric
:agree:
bloat, waste, overpromises, coupled with mismanagement and outright lies. Great example of redistribution gone bad.
 

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:agree:
bloat, waste, overpromises, coupled with mismanagement and outright lies. Great example of redistribution gone bad.
And when the less informed finally figure this out, all heck will break loose. Just like when its time for me to recieve my SS (that they have been withdrawing from my paycheck for over 40 years (which I could not decline)) and they tell me my money (I PUT IN) is gone and I get ZIP:spanked: I know its bankrupt but the Government should at least give back to me just what it took (that is atleast fair) right?
 

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And when the less informed finally figure this out, all heck will break loose. Just like when its time for me to recieve my SS (that they have been withdrawing from my paycheck for over 40 years (which I could not decline)) and they tell me my money (I PUT IN) is gone and I get ZIP:spanked: I know its bankrupt but the Government should at least give back to me just what it took (that is atleast fair) right?
Do you remember Sen. Patrick Moynihan? There were monies that came in from SS contributions and he actually mantained the 'lockbox', i.e. the fund where the money went. He made a promise that the sticky fingers wouldn't get thier grimey little hands on the fund while he was still a senator, and he did keep that promise. As soon as he died, they opened up the fund like pirates after treasure and that was the end of that.

Moynihan was a democrat, btw. One of the last real ones.
 

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Its not even the wages so much as it is the benefits and legacy costs.
Benifits and legacy costs are one thing but when you compare the average wages of a non-union american worker at about $15.00 per hour and compare that to the average wage of the chinese worker at $3.00 a day. Well the writing is on the wall. It isn't about unions or benifits or legacy costs it's about the difference in cost of living. It also doesn't help that we are competing against a communist country that can dictate price control over it's people while also artificialy fixing their currency to ours. Thus always making our dollar strong compared to thier currency, which again gives them a huge price advantage. The game is rigged and we argue about how unions a screwing us.....it's the chinese that are screwing us, and we are too busy pointing fingers at each other to notice. :crazy::crazy::crazy::crazy:
 

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Do you remember Sen. Patrick Moynihan? There were monies that came in from SS contributions and he actually mantained the 'lockbox', i.e. the fund where the money went. He made a promise that the sticky fingers wouldn't get thier grimey little hands on the fund while he was still a senator, and he did keep that promise. As soon as he died, they opened up the fund like pirates after treasure and that was the end of that.

Moynihan was a democrat, btw. One of the last real ones.
You are absolutly correct...and Reagan was the pirate.
 

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Benifits and legacy costs are one thing but when you compare the average wages of a non-union american worker at about $15.00 per hour and compare that to the average wage of the chinese worker at $3.00 a day.
That $15 is only a fraction of what it costs for that hourly worker for his / her employer look at what the gov takes also
 
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