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Here's a lesson that is both ironic and sad at the same time. According to the U.S. Department of Education, two-thirds of the eighth graders in Wisconsin cannot read proficiently. But assuming the kids are skilled enough to watch TV, they can now see their teachers demonstrating to keep their generous union benefits. So while things do not seem to be going well in the classroom, any thought of holding teachers somewhat responsible is cause for a protest march.

As a former high-school teacher, it pains me to criticize those trying to educate American children. You will never become rich doing that, and the job can be maddening. Today, many children are the victims of a permissive society that often refuses to hold kids responsible for their actions. Cowardly parents make excuses for the failures of their kids, rather than finding a solution to their poor academic performance. Instead of preparing their children for rigorous academic challenges, derelict parents sit it out.

But teachers are supposed to overcome apathetic parenting and at least give the kids a fighting chance to succeed. That is a challenge that's supposed to be met.

As I've written before, in my eighth-grade class at St. Brigid's School on Long Island, there were 60 students and one nun in the classroom. We all could read proficiently, and believe me, some of the parents were not exactly Ozzie and Harriet, if you understand what I'm saying. The nun brooked no nonsense. She forced us to learn.

But that was then.

In 10 years, starting in 1998, Wisconsin doubled the amount of money spent on each public-school student to more than $10,000 per pupil per year. And test scores went down! Doing the math, the equation seems to be that money is not the key to knowledge.

Discipline is.

The teachers in Wisconsin should be compensated to the best of the state's ability. But the educational gravy train is off the tracks. There's no more money. The taxpayer is tapped out.

In the future, if you want to teach kids you'll have to accept less to do it. That may not be fair, but it's the lesson Wisconsin is teaching us. The writing is very clear on the blackboard: No more public money is on the way.

I left teaching because I understood the limitations of the job. I knew at a young age that my income would be restricted and my life would be fairly predictable.

Selfishly, I wanted more.

But I respect immensely those who devote their lives to teaching. I want them to have as much as the market will bear.

Sadly, that point has now been reached.

http://townhall.com/columnists/billoreilly/2011/02/26/getting_schooled_in_wisconsin
 

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That is the sad part of it. Teachers go to college at least 4 yrs and they want them to work for minimum wage!!

Our country will pay for this stupidity in the future, who the hell would want to go into the teaching profession now????


SAD

:lookinup:
 

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I just watched Waiting For "Superman", and would recommend everyone else see it.

There are many reasons for our educational system's failure, and this film shows them.
 

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Could one of you politico's please help me understand? Why is Wisconsin taking benefits away from their teachers and allowing ILLEGAL immigrants to attend school, raising the class size and requiring more teachers. How can Wisconsin give in-state tuition rates to ILLEGAL immigrants at an approximate cost of $10,000 per Illegal per year. American students from bordering states get no such benefit. How in the name of God does anyone see this as logical?

If I were to get convicted of a crime that is illegal, could I just tell the judge that illegal does not mean illegal so in fact it must be OK. How can anyone reward bad behavior by monetary gains? By almost every definition illegal would be bad behavior because you're breaking the law.

Just a little Hillbilly logic IMHO.
 

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Could one of you politico's please help me understand? Why is Wisconsin taking benefits away from their teachers and allowing ILLEGAL immigrants to attend school, raising the class size and requiring more teachers. How can Wisconsin give in-state tuition rates to ILLEGAL immigrants at an approximate cost of $10,000 per Illegal per year. American students from bordering states get no such benefit. How in the name of God does anyone see this as logical?

If I were to get convicted of a crime that is illegal, could I just tell the judge that illegal does not mean illegal so in fact it must be OK. How can anyone reward bad behavior by monetary gains? By almost every definition illegal would be bad behavior because you're breaking the law.

Just a little Hillbilly logic IMHO.
First, No one is taking away their benefits. The teachers are being asked to pay for a small portion of their health insurance and retirement. The amount they are being asked to pay is far smaller than the average tax payer of the state of Wisconsin has to pay for theirs. Unlike the federal government the States have to pass a balanced budget. So, the Governor has 3 choices, 1, raise taxes on the people that are already over taxed,2 lay off state employees adding to unemployment or 3 ask the teachers to pay less than the average tax payer pays for their benefits.

second on the ILLEGAL immigrants, The state has no choice but to educate them under FEDERAL law. If you don't like paying $10,000 per ILLEGAL immigrant tell it to Obama. But we've seen what happens when a state tries to police their ILLEGAL immigrant they get sued and attacked by the federal goverment.

The Governor of Wisconsin is trying to balance a 3 billion dollar deficit without raising taxes or lay offs. If you have a better way of doing so give him a call, I'm sure he'd love your "Hillbilly logic" on the matter.
 

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That is the sad part of it. Teachers go to college at least 4 yrs and they want them to work for minimum wage!!

Our country will pay for this stupidity in the future, who the hell would want to go into the teaching profession now????


SAD

:lookinup:
Please educate me, name one place in America where a full time teacher with a B.A. works for minimum wage. It sure as Hell isn't in the state of Wisconsin, their benefits alone add up to more than minimum wage. Add onto that 3 months of paid vacation a year, how many months of paid vacation do you get a year?? I'll bet the average tax payer in Wisconsin doesn't get 3 weeks paid vacation let alone 3 months.
 

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Add onto that 3 months of paid vacation a year, how many months of paid vacation do you get a year?? .
I got 30 days per year but thanks to my union I retired after 31 years !!!!

If I had to spend 9 months a year with a room full of 60 kids I would need 3 months vacation too!!!!!!!!

:rolling:
 

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First, No one is taking away their benefits. The teachers are being asked to pay for a small portion of their health insurance and retirement. The amount they are being asked to pay is far smaller than the average tax payer of the state of Wisconsin has to pay for theirs. Unlike the federal government the States have to pass a balanced budget. So, the Governor has 3 choices, 1, raise taxes on the people that are already over taxed,2 lay off state employees adding to unemployment or 3 ask the teachers to pay less than the average tax payer pays for their benefits.

second on the ILLEGAL immigrants, The state has no choice but to educate them under FEDERAL law. If you don't like paying $10,000 per ILLEGAL immigrant tell it to Obama. But we've seen what happens when a state tries to police their ILLEGAL immigrant they get sued and attacked by the federal goverment.

The Governor of Wisconsin is trying to balance a 3 billion dollar deficit without raising taxes or lay offs. If you have a better way of doing so give him a call, I'm sure he'd love your "Hillbilly logic" on the matter.
First, one of us has a different definition for "benefits". What they're being asked to pay is certainly fair and in line with the rest of us that live in the real world. But.....it is not what was agreed to when they had their contract negotiations. It is a failed and broken promise. If the Governor doesn't like it there will be other negotiations. It's not a life long contract. It's not the fault of the teachers that he can't wait.

If you were to be lucky enough to win a 10 million dollar Powerball and you were guaranteed ten million dollars that would be great. How about if the Powerball folks needed your money to reduce their debt and told you after winning, that you need to give a lot of it back. Would you be as understanding??

Second, I think that the federal law only applies to primary education. For the record, I think even that's wrong. This country can not survive by being as politically correct as we are trying to be. Someone's got to get their toes stepped on and who toes would be better then than someone that is ILLEGAL. They have no shoes (rights) to wear so toe stompin' isn't hard. To give ILLEGAL people a $10,000.00 a year tuition break when American citizens in the next state pay full price is just wrong.

I realize that the Governor's state is in debt but if there were fewer students they would need fewer teachers. Very few union contracts protect you from layoffs if the workload decreases. Our Capitol does need to be swept clean because it's pretty obvious that they have no idea how to enforce the laws passed by Congress. Obamarama is not the cure, he's part of the disease. We are in dire need of someone that knows how to balance their checkbook. IMHO;)
 

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I believe that the answer to our problems lies within the membership of Digital Corvettes. There are many intelligent and productive debates that go on inside these blue walls of reason. If we could get Congress to be as productive...................!

I've rarely seen so many people, bonded by a love of cars, intelligently discuss the problems that face our country. Way to go guys and our delicious corvette babes too.........all of you, even the one's that disagree with me.:D
 

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WI has one of the highest state tax rates in the nation- my state income taxes are almost as much as my federal taxes. I do not see how people keep saying the gov is trying to take away the teachers pay and benefits- they have far better benefits than the ave WI resident and pay almost nothing for them.

One of the biggest problems with collective barganing is that the negotiations are behind closed doors- given the negotiations are over my tax dollars, it is only fair that I know exactly what is going on- even the sessions of the state legislature are televised. Another problem is, nothing stops them from walking out come next contract if they dont get everything they "lost" and then some. They say collective bargaining is a right, but yet NOWHERE does it say that it is a right.

You can blast gov walker all you want, but there is no denying that he is one of the few elected officials in recent times who sets out to do EXACTLY what his platforms were during his campaign. It was no secret what he was going to do if elected, people just chose not to hear it.

The biggest travesty of all of this, is that those WI state senators who fled to state to prevent democracy from taking place. If you do not like the bill, defeat it in the capital building, not from a resort in another state.

I know the shape of the WI education system. WI has one of the lowest test scores in the nation. The teachers that have the worst test scores cannot be replaced due to the teachers unions. Tenure prevents it. Tenure is what their pay is based on, not performance. No other system rewards time over performance. If you do not believe me, look at these fed gov census stats

http://www.census.gov/compendia/statab/2011/tables/11s0265.pdf

If the teachers there feel they deserve more pay, then they should prove they deserve it, as they currently do not. When I moved from MN to WI, several of the text books I used in 1st grade in MN were being used for 2nd/3rd grade in WI.
 

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I can't completely disagree with my military buddy above but let's not forget that a negotiated contract or Collective bargaining agreement is a legally binding document. It is illegal to rescind it after all parties agreed to it. The Governor is breaking the law. I'm just saying that if you don't like it then change it next negotiation. Short term the money should come from somewhere else. Bonds, loans, or just take a percentage of pay from every state employee including lawmakers, Governors, street sweepers, etc. . Percentages are pretty fair. Anything to get them through to the next contract and then see where the chips fall. Most teachers are not ignorant and could understand that the time for change has come. But, yes, they may also strike and cause further upheaval.
 

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and the state gov employees striking is the exact reason there should be no gov employee unions. They are in the unique position to cripple a state when they strike for not getting what they want. Private sector unions are in a different position. When they strike, they hurt the company, not the entire population of the state where the company is.

There are always reasons to put off making tough choices. Are there other ways to do it? maybe. But you cannot say they would have any other result as what is going on now. The negotiation process thru collective bargaining in WI typically takes 15-18 months. that is 15-18 months of private, closed door negotiations for taxpayer money. 15-18 months of spending taxpayer dollars for 1000's of hours of lawyer fees and such. Eventually it has to stop. We have a saying in the military that a lot of these people need to realize- The good of the many is more important than the good of the few. They are public employees and work for the people of the state of WI, it is time they stop acting like they are more important than those that pay their salary.
 

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First, one of us has a different definition for "benefits". What they're being asked to pay is certainly fair and in line with the rest of us that live in the real world. But.....it is not what was agreed to when they had their contract negotiations. It is a failed and broken promise. If the Governor doesn't like it there will be other negotiations. It's not a life long contract. It's not the fault of the teachers that he can't wait.

If you were to be lucky enough to win a 10 million dollar Powerball and you were guaranteed ten million dollars that would be great. How about if the Powerball folks needed your money to reduce their debt and told you after winning, that you need to give a lot of it back. Would you be as understanding??

Second, I think that the federal law only applies to primary education. For the record, I think even that's wrong. This country can not survive by being as politically correct as we are trying to be. Someone's got to get their toes stepped on and who toes would be better then than someone that is ILLEGAL. They have no shoes (rights) to wear so toe stompin' isn't hard. To give ILLEGAL people a $10,000.00 a year tuition break when American citizens in the next state pay full price is just wrong.

I realize that the Governor's state is in debt but if there were fewer students they would need fewer teachers. Very few union contracts protect you from layoffs if the workload decreases. Our Capitol does need to be swept clean because it's pretty obvious that they have no idea how to enforce the laws passed by Congress. Obamarama is not the cure, he's part of the disease. We are in dire need of someone that knows how to balance their checkbook. IMHO;)
We do agree:thumbsup:. Get rid of the illegal immigrant and lay off the now unneeded teachers. True be known if you got rid of all the Illegal immigrants in Wisconsin there wouldn't be a need to lay off anyone to make the balanced budget. But that's not going to happen and the budget has to balance.
 

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I just watched Waiting For "Superman", and would recommend everyone else see it.

There are many reasons for our educational system's failure, and this film shows them.
Thought provoking documentary but director admits he has no personal experience or connection with public schools. He told me he attended private schools, as does his children. Maybe that makes him more objective. Maybe he began the project with a built in bias. The viewer will have to decide.
 

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I got 30 days per year but thanks to my union I retired after 31 years !!!!

If I had to spend 9 months a year with a room full of 60 kids I would need 3 months vacation too!!!!!!!!

:rolling:
I'll be eligible to retire from my nonunion job after 31 years, the only difference is I won't have paid 31 years worth of union dues.:D

The battle in Wisconsin isn't over benefits, it's really all about the power that the union has over the tax payers.
 

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Thought provoking documentary but director admits he has no personal experience or connection with public schools. He told me he attended private schools, as does his children. Maybe that makes him more objective. Maybe he began the project with a built in bias. The viewer will have to decide.
Regardless of his background, the statistics and events presented speak for themselves.

Bottom line, the teacher's union has gone too far, the education system is broken, and the parents that want their kids to get a good education are being ignored.

None of this is justifiable when our country's future is at stake. This is a national problem.
 

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I got 30 days per year but thanks to my union I retired after 31 years !!!!

If I had to spend 9 months a year with a room full of 60 kids I would need 3 months vacation too!!!!!!!!

:rolling:
Hell I could probably retire at 12 years and get full benefits and pension and not wait to hit 20, and I wouldnt have paid a single cent to a union. I do support, voluntairly, orginazitions that fight for veterans- like when obama wanted us to pay for healthcare just like every other person with a normal profession. they are not unions, they do not force membership, they do not threaten the govt, and they support you if you are a member or not.
 

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Hell I could probably retire at 12 years and get full benefits and pension and not wait to hit 20, and I wouldnt have paid a single cent to a union. I do support, voluntairly, orginazitions that fight for veterans- like when obama wanted us to pay for healthcare just like every other person with a normal profession. they are not unions, they do not force membership, they do not threaten the govt, and they support you if you are a member or not.

Yep, GOVT EMPLOYEE !!!

:smack
 

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yes, govt employee....but quite a bit different from your typical govt employee- what ever is asked of me, i do- we do. we do not strike, we do not stop working, we just keep going. pay raise, no pay raise. days off? what are those.... more concerned with ourselves than anything else? not likely....

yes, I could probably retire right now at 12 years service with a medical evaluation board and be medically retired (with 100% disability) but I don't. I keep going....
 

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yes, govt employee....but quite a bit different from your typical govt employee- what ever is asked of me, i do- we do. we do not strike, we do not stop working, we just keep going. pay raise, no pay raise. days off? what are those.... more concerned with ourselves than anything else? not likely....

yes, I could probably retire right now at 12 years service with a medical evaluation board and be medically retired (with 100% disability) but I don't. I keep going....
And Thank-you, thank-you, thank-you for that!! you are the reason that I'm able to bask in the freedom that I have and enjoy. :cheers:
 
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