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Discussion Starter #1
* Obama says U.S. low growth or no growth danger to world

* China says U.S being irresponsible over QE

* Russia says G20 should have been consulted by Fed

* Trichet: c.bankers insist no currency weakening sought

(Adds Trichet, Geithner)

By Patricia Zengerle and Krittivas Mukherjee

NEW DELHI, Nov 8 (Reuters) - U.S. President Barack Obama defended the Federal Reserve's policy of printing dollars on Monday after China and Russia stepped up criticism ahead of this week's Group of 20 meeting.

The G20 summit has been pitched as a chance for leaders of the countries that account for 85 percent of world output to prevent a currency row escalating into a rush to protectionism that could imperil the global recovery. [ID:nSGE6A703T]

But there is little sign of consensus.

The summit has been overshadowed by disagreements over the U.S. Federal Reserve's quantitative easing (QE) policy under which it will print money to buy $600 billion of government bonds, a move that could depress the dollar and cause a potentially destabilising flow of money into emerging economies.

"I will say that the Fed's mandate, my mandate, is to grow our economy. And that's not just good for the United States, that's good for the world as a whole," Obama said during a trip to India.

"And the worst thing that could happen to the world economy, not just ours, is if we end up being stuck with no growth or very limited growth," he said.

European Central Bank President Jean-Claude Trichet said all participants at a meeting of the world's central bankers in Basel, Switzerland had insisted they were not pursuing weak currency policies.

"We're attached to avoiding excessive volatility. It's very counterproductive for global growth and global stability," he told a news conference.

http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTOE6A706720101108

Oil price hits two-year high


Oil prices reached two-year high points on Monday before profit-taking pushed them down, while attention was on Nigeria after an oil rig was attacked off the coast of the energy exporting nation.

New York's main contract, light sweet crude for delivery in December, struck 87.49 dollars a barrel -- the highest point since late 2008.

It later pulled back to stand at 86.58 dollars, down 27 cents compared with Friday's close.

In London, Brent North Sea crude for December fell 36 cents to 87.75 dollars a barrel. Analysts said prices were still profiting from strong US employment figures.

"Better-than-expected US labour market data have created optimism among financial investors and this could revive the demand for oil in the US, the world's largest oil consumer," said Commerzbank analyst Carsten Fritsch.

On Friday, the US Labor Department reported a surprising 151,000 non-farm jobs were added in October, snapping a four-month streak of payroll losses and more than double the 60,000 forecast by most analysts.

Oil prices have been boosted in recent days by the US Federal Reserve's decision to inject an additional 600 billion dollars (423 billion euros) into the market to help stimulate the world's biggest economy.

more in link..... http://news.ph.msn.com/business/article.aspx?cp-documentid=4446311
 

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Monetizing the debt...the too big to fail/jail guys are hard at work...everything seems to be going according to plan...to fundamentally change the USofA into...

Weimar republic?
USA circa late 1929?
China is going to get pissed and may pull it's bonds, destroying the global liquidity...the Fed will then raise it's rates to 4%-5% to try and make it look like we've got real asset value, then nobody buys the bonds...then ...get your guns...

mmmmm...could be?
 

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Of course all oil corporations will be there with their hands out on this one

Just like they were when the secondary loan market was extending credit to anyone and everyone,

Gas went to $5 dollars a gallon on that one,

This is all a very bad move and will only make matters worse at the end of the day,

Guaranteed to cause more inflation.

Outsourcing and trade with China is a total failure:nuts:

Look at the statistics:crazy:

We need to rid ourselves of these other countries, They only bring their problems on us

Also their track record throughout history is very bad
and now it is affecting us

We need to develop a more german like mentality here in the US

Rebuild our infrastructure

Buy U.S.A and Skrew everybody else

Bon
 

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Monetizing the debt...the too big to fail/jail guys are hard at work...everything seems to be going according to plan...to fundamentally change the USofA into...

Weimar republic?
USA circa late 1929?
China is going to get pissed and may pull it's bonds, destroying the global liquidity...the Fed will then raise it's rates to 4%-5% to try and make it look like we've got real asset value, then nobody buys the bonds...then ...get your guns...

mmmmm...could be?
The problem is that the world is very different from the world of 1929. Especiallly the interdependence of countries because of the global market. Essentially, we are in uncharted territory. No one really knows what is the right or wrong strategy. But each country knows which policies will help or hurt it's economy. So far, there is lip service to working this thing out together. But the U.S. has signalled that it will go it alone. If this frightens everyone else into doing the same thing, there will be economic chaos. I hope we don't look back in 20 years and find that this devaluation was the beginning of a very dark time in the world economy.
 

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The problem is that the world is very different from the world of 1929. Especiallly the interdependence of countries because of the global market. Essentially, we are in uncharted territory. No one really knows what is the right or wrong strategy. But each country knows which policies will help or hurt it's economy. So far, there is lip service to working this thing out together. But the U.S. has signalled that it will go it alone. If this frightens everyone else into doing the same thing, there will be economic chaos. I hope we don't look back in 20 years and find that this devaluation was the beginning of a very dark time in the world economy.
I propose that the world is very much the same as it was in 1929...in this sense: It was the bankers that caused the crash, and it was all about money. The part that IS different is the global connection our curency has at this time, and the effect it's demise will have on the rest of the world if it explodes. Soros and his ilk will have thier hearts desire...A new world order. When this happens how long do you think it will take for Russia, China, and the South American Communists to come into the US and do a resource grab? Nero may be fiddling while Rome is about to burn.
 

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I propose that the world is very much the same as it was in 1929...in this sense: It was the bankers that caused the crash, and it was all about money. The part that IS different is the global connection our curency has at this time, and the effect it's demise will have on the rest of the world if it explodes. Soros and his ilk will have thier hearts desire...A new world order. When this happens how long do you think it will take for Russia, China, and the South American Communists to come into the US and do a resource grab? Nero may be fiddling while Rome is about to burn.
I can't say I disagree with you, but what is the answer? An overly strong dollar fuels the trade deficit, killing jobs. As I have said before, weak and strong dollars both have their drawbacks. I don't know where the balance is needed right now, and I'm not sure anyone else does either. :huh:
 

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I can't say I disagree with you, but what is the answer? An overly strong dollar fuels the trade deficit, killing jobs. As I have said before, weak and strong dollars both have their drawbacks. I don't know where the balance is needed right now, and I'm not sure anyone else does either. :huh:
I say we just file bankruptcy and start over. It's the American way! :partyon: **** everyone else. ;)

It's only paper. Not like they're actually holding anything of ours of actual value. :devil:
 

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I can't say I disagree with you, but what is the answer? An overly strong dollar fuels the trade deficit, killing jobs. As I have said before, weak and strong dollars both have their drawbacks. I don't know where the balance is needed right now, and I'm not sure anyone else does either. :huh:
The answer is, there is no easy solution. If you want to make an omelete... Ron Paul is about to make history for one small fact...he is going to audit the Fed...if he survives...
Trail Of Blood.

Thirst For Justice

Assasinated for the cause of justice.

Damn, just damn!

Now, if even half of the above is true, you have the answer. However, to extricate it will take a revolution, with no certain outcome.

An audit is a very small step in the right direction, but frought with peril for those involved.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Hope everyone has some gold.. because the $100 bill will be toilet paper soon if the Fed isn't stopped.

Gold rises to record high, breezes past $1,400

By Claudia Assis

SAN FRANCISCO (MarketWatch) -- Gold futures turned positive Monday, hitting a fresh record and soaring beyond $1,400 an ounce in the process. Gold for December delivery recently traded up $1.90, or 0.2%, to $1,399.80 an ounce on the Comex division of the New York Mercantile Exchange. The metal earlier hit an intraday high of $1,402 an ounce. Gold started floor trading in the red, losing as much as $10 from Friday's settlement close as the dollar rose, but pared losses as the session progressed and investors bought gold to protect against sovereign debt woes in Europe, namely from Portugal and Ireland.

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/gold-reverts-to-record-high-breezes-past-1400-2010-11-08
 

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Hope everyone has some gold.. because the $100 bill will be toilet paper soon if the Fed isn't stopped.

Gold rises to record high, breezes past $1,400

By Claudia Assis

SAN FRANCISCO (MarketWatch) -- Gold futures turned positive Monday, hitting a fresh record and soaring beyond $1,400 an ounce in the process. Gold for December delivery recently traded up $1.90, or 0.2%, to $1,399.80 an ounce on the Comex division of the New York Mercantile Exchange. The metal earlier hit an intraday high of $1,402 an ounce. Gold started floor trading in the red, losing as much as $10 from Friday's settlement close as the dollar rose, but pared losses as the session progressed and investors bought gold to protect against sovereign debt woes in Europe, namely from Portugal and Ireland.

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/gold-reverts-to-record-high-breezes-past-1400-2010-11-08
Yes but.....isn't most gold trading just paper trading? Not like you can cash out for actual gold or store it in your closet at home?
When the dollar really crashes and your stuck holding gold certificates....are they really going to be usable? :huh:
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Yes but.....isn't most gold trading just paper trading? Not like you can cash out for actual gold or store it in your closet at home?
When the dollar really crashes and your stuck holding gold certificates....are they really going to be usable? :huh:
:laughing: What moron would buy paper gold? Oh wait... probably the same morons who were sucked into gambling their retirements away.. :crazy::laughing:

If you can't pick it up and carry around the house, your gold isn't worth the paper it's written on..
 

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:laughing: What moron would buy paper gold? Oh wait... probably the same morons who were sucked into gambling their retirements away.. :crazy::laughing:

If you can't pick it up and carry around the house, your gold isn't worth the paper it's written on..
My point exactly. :laughing: Look at all the commercials for "investing in gold" within your IRA or 401K! There have to be millions of people doing it.
 

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:laughing: What moron would buy paper gold? Oh wait... probably the same morons who were sucked into gambling their retirements away.. :crazy::laughing:
That would be Rep. Weiner. ;)
If you can't pick it up and carry around the house, your gold isn't worth the paper it's written on..
And what Beck has been reccomending...real gold...

What concerns me is Weimar...even gold would do no good in that scenario.

I just bought some fishing gear to go along with my hunting stuff.

We got 'gators here in Fla. 1 gator, you're eatring for a good 2 weeks. And the mullet is jumping out of the water constantly in the Intracoastal right in front of my place all day long...

I should be ok, until the invasion comes...but I've got some traps laid out for that. I may go down, but it's gonna hurt some.. :partyon:
 

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Discussion Starter #15
Some parts of the country could expect that, worst case scenario. But others could do quite well considering. But, gold will always have value, and even if worse came to worse, you can barter with gold, silver or service. Not much bartering with currency that's worthless or paper thats even more worthless.

We are headed to another big war, IMO. The groundwork is already in place, the enemies already armed and funded, now it's just time/place for the start.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
'The US Has Lived on Borrowed Money for Too Long'

In an interview with SPIEGEL, German Finance Minister Wolfgang Schäuble, 68, criticizes US calls for Germany to reduce exports, outlines his plans for an insolvency framework for indebted European nations and the emphasizes the significance of the German-French axis for Europe.

SPIEGEL: Minister Schäuble, how well do you get along with your American counterpart, Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner?

Schäuble: Mr. Geithner is an excellent minister. We have a good personal relationship.

SPIEGEL: Nevertheless, he constantly criticizes government officials in countries that are achieving high export surpluses and not doing enough to stimulate their domestic economies. He's referring to you, isn't he?

Schäuble: It would appear that way. That's why I tell him again and again that I think his point of view is incorrect in this regard.

SPIEGEL: All the same, the value of goods Germany sold to the United States exceeded imports from that country by almost €14 billion ($19.8 billion) last year. Can't you understand that the American treasury secretary is concerned about this?

Schäuble: No, because since we introduced the euro in Europe, the determining factor is no longer US trade with Germany, but US trade with the totality of countries in the euro zone. And in that respect the balance of trade tends to be even. So what's the problem? After all, we don't complain about the export successes of individual American states.

SPIEGEL: But the German economy benefits from the fact that German industry has focused primarily on foreign markets and wages have hardly gone up in years. The Americans see this as unfair.

Schäuble: The German export successes are not the result of some sort of currency manipulation, but of the increased competitiveness of companies. The American growth model, on the other hand, is in a deep crisis. The United States lived on borrowed money for too long, inflating its financial sector unnecessarily and neglecting its small and mid-sized industrial companies. There are many reasons for America's problems, but they don't include German export surpluses.

SPIEGEL: The US government sees it differently. It wants to see German exports to the United States curtailed in the future once they reach a certain threshold. Will you give in to the pressure?

Schäuble: The proposal is not acceptable for Germany under any circumstances. If we were to introduce such measures, we would be restricting international competition. But for years we, together with the Americans, have believed that world trade needs to be opened up further. We should stick to that approach and, for example, press ahead with the Doha round to promote world trade. This would stimulate global growth far more effectively than a bilateral agreement on quotas.

SPIEGEL: Last week, the US Federal Reserve Bank decided to flood the economy with $600 billion in new money. Will this stimulate the economy as hoped?

Schäuble: I seriously doubt that it makes sense to pump unlimited amounts of money into the markets. There is no lack of liquidity in the US economy, which is why I don't recognize the economic argument behind this measure.

SPIEGEL: The US wants to depress the value of the dollar in this way, so that it can sell its products abroad more easily. In light of the ailing US economy, isn't that a completely reasonable strategy?

Schäuble: No. The Fed's decisions bring more uncertainty to the global economy. They make it more difficult to achieve a reasonable balance between industrialized and emerging economies, and they undermine the US's credibility when it comes to fiscal policy. It's inconsistent for the Americans to accuse the Chinese of manipulating exchange rates and then to artificially depress the dollar exchange rate by printing money.

SPIEGEL: The G-20 nations will meet in South Korea this week to discuss the condition of the world economy two years after the deepest financial and economic crisis since the war. When the crisis erupted, the international community reacted with astonishing unanimity. But now many countries are trying to achieve advantages by influencing their exchange rates. Are you worried about a worldwide currency war?

Schäuble: I don't believe in such belligerent terms, but it's obvious that the global economy is in a tough situation. This is due to the enormous national debts many countries have taken on while fighting the crisis. Reducing these deficits is the primary objective, as the G-20 countries decided at their most recent summit in Toronto, where everyone, including the United States, agreed to cut their deficits by half by 2013. We should stick to these decisions, and if we do we will be able to curb unrest in the markets.

SPIEGEL: But the United States isn't the only country that's responsible for unrest in the markets. The euro crisis also continues to smolder. The risk premiums for government bonds from the crisis-plagued countries Ireland and Greece have gone up again. How much longer will it take before Europe has to issue new state guarantees?

Schäuble: I'm not that pessimistic in this regard. Although the Irish have accumulated huge debts to bail out their banks, they are making good progress in cleaning up their economy. And I also have great respect for the Greek government's resolve. A few months ago, hardly anyone would have believed that the Greeks would manage to implement such a drastic austerity program. They're moving in the right direction now.

SPIEGEL: Conditions in Europe are not as orderly as you describe. Just two weeks ago, the European Council (the EU body in Brussels that includes the heads of state and government of the membber states) decided to introduce a new crisis mechanism for over-indebted euro nations. Are you satisfied with the result?

Schäuble: The Council's decisions are a great success. Only a few weeks ago, many predicted that France would never support Germany in its commitment to a European crisis mechanism. And that the French would be willing to change the European treaties to do so was seen as completely out of the question. But then Chancellor (Angela) Merkel and President (Nicolas) Sarkozy met in Deauville and achieved a historic breakthrough on both issues. It's completely in line with the approach we Germans have always supported.

SPIEGEL: You can't possibly believe what you're saying. Until recently, Germany was demanding automatic penalties for countries that violated the debt rules of the euro zone. That demand is now off the table.

Schäuble: In Europe, it just so happens that you don't always get everything you wish for. The overwhelming majority of EU members have made it clear that they would not accept automatic sanctions. Our response was: Instead of fighting for something you can't have, we'll try to achieve what's feasible.

SPIEGEL: That sounds like supreme statesmanship. But now there will be no change to the situation on the European Council, where the offenders and the watchdogs remain identical, as former constitutional judge Paul Kirchhof has said. The countries that don't have their budgets under control are helping to decide what penalties will be imposed for that. This isn't the way to come up with effective, prompt sanctions.

Schäuble: I disagree. It will be much easier in the future to enforce sanctions against deficit sinners. We will also be able to take preventive action earlier in the game. Besides, it didn't exactly advance the German position when the red-green government (the former center-left coalition of Social Democratic Party and Green Party that governed from 1998 until 2005), together with the French government, did serious, lasting damage to the Stability and Growth Pact by saying: The pact applies to everyone, just not to the two largest member states.

Continued in link......

http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/0,1518,727801,00.html
 

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