[turtlevette]

Where can i mount the pump so it don't interfere with the frame?

Most i've seen mount really low on either side. Is that so it will self prime?

 

[mrvette]

The whole concept of a 'dry sump' has me a bit mystified in that the idea makes no PRACTICAL sense....

so the oil is into the crank/rods/wrist pins, it's spun outta there at high speed, splashes all over the joint under there, hopefully including the cam lobes enuff they are happy....so....

I have to assume somehow a crank scraper keeps the crank from dragging around much oil suspension thereby keeping the malt to a minimum...ok...I can buy that one...

but since the oil is down there below the 1/2 step effort of a windage tray....

and is not in the malt stage anymore, away from the crank....

just what in hell is a dry sump supposed to DO???

for all the problems introducing one to any car....the ultimate reason/question....WHY??

and specifically how much HP is saved for the change....percentage wise...

NASCAR cares about the possible theoretical saving of 3-5 hp.....out of 8000 in a fuel dragster, do THEY???

anyone show me what's rong with my reasoning?? please???

 

[turtlevette]

The biggest reason is because i'm a dumbass and bought a dry sump Rodeck aluminum block instead of a wet sump. Most aluminum blocks are built for round d round racing and are built dedicated to dry sump oiling and are not easily converted.


The technical reason is that big G forces uncovers the pickup in the bottom of the pan, sucks air and oil pressure goes to nil. Not as big a problem in drag racing because the picup is at the rear of the pan, but in roadracing under hard cornering or braking the pickup will suck air.

I don't think it ends up saving any HP. I takes more torque to spin that multi stage external pump.

 

[redvetracr]

Turtle,
all you need is a little notch in the front crossmember.
...redvetracr

PS: all the pro stock drag race guys run a dry sump.....

 

[yellow73sb]

The biggest reason is because i'm a dumbass and bought a dry sump Rodeck aluminum block instead of a wet sump. Most aluminum blocks are built for round d round racing and are built dedicated to dry sump oiling and are not easily converted.


The technical reason is that big G forces uncovers the pickup in the bottom of the pan, sucks air and oil pressure goes to nil. Not as big a problem in drag racing because the picup is at the rear of the pan, but in roadracing under hard cornering or braking the pickup will suck air.

I don't think it ends up saving any HP. I takes more torque to spin that multi stage external pump.

I'm hoping my Canton pan will help prevent this

I think it has something like 7 trap doors :surprised

 

[redvetracr]

"I'm hoping my Canton pan will help prevent this

I think it has something like 7 trap doors"



you already know what I am hoping for!!! I think I have a better shot at it than you do....
...redvetracr

 

[yellow73sb]

Ahh yes Haile :laughing:

 

[turtlevette]

Turtle,
all you need is a little notch in the front crossmember.
...redvetracr
!

Yea, I saw TT's "little" notch in the front crossmember. I won't do that.


I'd rather mount it high and let it starve for a second on startup.

 

[redvetracr]

Yea, I saw TT's "little" notch in the front crossmember. I won't do that.


I'd rather mount it high and let it starve for a second on startup.

stubborn turtle aren`t you...then I won`t bother posting the pic....
.....redvetracr

 

[JPhil]

Edit/Delete: (Nevermind, I misunderstood the question, so my reply was BS)

John

 

[turtlevette]

The "I'm a dumbass and bought a dry sump block...." I can understand & relate to, but,

You're just messin' with us, right?

Jeez, if you're that tight, put a hand pump like the old lakes racers used for their fuel tanks hooked up through an electric switch oil guage from an industial engine so the ignition won't turn on till the oil pressure is up.
Or at least seperate starter and ignition switches so you can crank to get oil pressure before the motor fires off.

You're just f**kin' with us, right, Turtle?

John

no, you think your wet sump system is fully primed at startup? It takes some time to develop pressure. No big deal at idle speeds.

 

[JPhil]

Dam you're quick tonite! See previous post!
Sorry!

 

[big2bird]

no, you think your wet sump system is fully primed at startup? It takes some time to develop pressure. No big deal at idle speeds.

Actually, a wet sump system although not under pressure when off, stays quite full and primed. Pull a dizzy, and turn the pump with a screwdriver. Instant oil flow.

 

[TwinTurbo]

I did notch the crossmember but since then I have moved the pump upwards w/ an adapter bracket. I needed to move the pump up because the steering shaft goes under it. Anyway, you can mount the pump higher and have it self prime. If your fluid level in the dry sump tank is higher you will have a self priming pump due to communicating vessels (I assume you're not going to run the feed line higher than the fluid level in any area so that'll be okay)

It's hard to see, don't have a better pic but compare the pump bracket location in front of the freeze plug to what Howard has.

Mine

Howard's

Hey, looks like you used an adapter to mount the pump slightly higher also LOL Looks exactly like mine Are you not using the 4th scavenge stage?

 

[gkull]

I don't think it ends up saving any HP. I takes more torque to spin that multi stage external pump.

Mrvette & turtlevette, The 20+ horse power gained is from running the interior of the block at @ 20 inches of vacuum.

Notching the frame rail is the correct way to do it. No big deal just cut and paste. You do not have room higher because of motor mounts and header pipes.

So many lapping cars pull into the pits with oil starvation rod knock that it is not funny. They have the best baffled pans and sump dumps on loss of pressure

 

[TwinTurbo]

You could add a large accumulator to help maintain oil pressure when the pickup swallows a pocket of air, it's not as fool proof as the dry sump system but it'll help quite a bit.

With the dry sump you indeed have a good vacuum in the crankcase, and a huge reduction in windage.

How difficult can notching that crossmember really be, you can do it

 

[turtlevette]

Actually, a wet sump system although not under pressure when off, stays quite full and primed. Pull a dizzy, and turn the pump with a screwdriver. Instant oil flow.

The chevy SB design is pretty good. The filter dosn't drain back. BOP designs have the filter sitting on its side and it used to drain back before anti drain back valves were put in the filters. Next time you start up see how long the oil pressure takes to come up. It ain't instanteneous.

 

[turtlevette]

You could add a large accumulator to help maintain oil pressure when the pickup swallows a pocket of air, it's not as fool proof as the dry sump system but it'll help quite a bit.

With the dry sump you indeed have a good vacuum in the crankcase, and a huge reduction in windage.

How difficult can notching that crossmember really be, you can do it

I run a power steering pump. If the scavenge stages actually pull a vacuum then i'm not worried about mounting the pump higher than the tank.

Guys forget about the RIGHT way to do it and try for a minute to think like me. I'm thinking about somewhere up high like where the smog pump used to be. Do they make them cog belts in a large variety of sizes?

Remember this is a street car first.

 

[redvetracr]

I run a power steering pump. If the scavenge stages actually pull a vacuum then i'm not worried about mounting the pump higher than the tank.

Guys forget about the RIGHT way to do it and try for a minute to think like me. I'm thinking about somewhere up high like where the smog pump used to be. Do they make them cog belts in a large variety of sizes?

Remember this is a street car first.

scavenge stages pull vacuum out of the pan ... sell the block!!

 

[TwinTurbo]

reposition the P.st. pump, mine is on the cyl head above the dry sump pump (it's in the picture)