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DC Crew
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JoeAngelicchio said:
Anyone on this forum have this setup??:excited:
Hmm... the problem with big blocks is they weigh far more than a small block. Don't know that you want more weight in the nose on a C4.... bad for handling, traction too.

And, since you can get huge cubes (406 ... 422...) from a small block, going big block doesn't seem to make much sense (unless you want monster monster monster cubes like 500+ cubes).

And, Lingenfelter is turning 8.95's at 165 MPH with a twin-turbo LS1.

Just my 2-cents.... :thumbsup:
 

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(1)an aluminum cylinder head and intake will reduce the weight of a BBC engine to within about 60 lbs of a SBC iron engine close enought that ZERO suspension work is necessary, an aluminum block can accually make the bbc engine weigh less than an iron sbc engine

(2)a properly built BBC engine of exactly the same displacement can out power a sbc engine in almost any case due to the better flowing cylinder heads

(3)available engine bay ROOM and the fact that a sbc turbo charged engine can exceed 1000-1200 hp is the main reason that more BBC engines are not turbocharged, (its difficult to use more than 1000-1200hp, so why bother?

heres some things to read


http://www.montygwilliams.com/turbochargers.html



http://members.rogers.com/rogue15/



how do you install a 454-502 in a C-4

if you put a bbc with aluminum heads, intake and water pump in , in place of the standard iron small block you only gain about 50-70 lbs, not enough differance to cause any problems at all, , I have worked on several of these swaps now and Im in the process of getting ready to do another one,heres whats needed
steering rack mounts cut and rewelded 3/4"-1" farther forward (that of course means the power steering pump lines/steering shaft, need to be extended 3/4" also)

small notch (starting at rear and going 3" forward from rear edge X 3/4"deep X 5" wide works well in rear top surface of (K) frame cross member to clear damper and pulley)(if you use an internally ballanced big block with the 6.75" dia. damper you can most likely skip the notch but with the 8" dia damper its necessary, and some oil pans will also require the back 1 1/2 of the (K) frame to be notched at an angle slopeing to the rear to clear them so youll probablly need the notch of some kind anyway)(and yes before you ask you could shim/modify the motor mounts up to get the clearance, but that would slightly raise the weight center and slightly effect the handleing, and that also makes the windshield motor and distributor clearance a bigger problem)

air conditioner shrouding fiber glass on pass side foot well around the air conditioning on the firewall needs to be modifyed for clearance, (the fiber glass cover from a LT5 makes this easy)(evaporator houseing cover)

1971 bbc vette exhaust manifolds (or custom headers) and all brakets/pulleys (mods needed here)
(see the post on building your own headers)
oil pan needs to be only 7.5" deep max

3" hood scoop unless you run a low rise intake and carb or a low height efi system

for a step by step instructions with pictures get a copy of the august 1998 vette magizine article( starts on page 34)it helped quite a bit the first time

otherwise its almost a drop in deal, but keep in mind that youll need a bigger radiator, the trans will not last to long with that amount of torque and it may not pass emission testing and a small size starter is needed, and your windshield wiper motor needs to be replaced with a much smaller one,(I don,t remember where we got them but alittle measureing and a trip to the salvage yard took care of that problem, and no tall valve covers don,t work well!

btw install the short block then add the heads with it in the car its FAR EASIER THAT WAY than trying to install the long block

BTW the earlier cars like the 1984-86 (Im not sure what years exactly)dont have the heavier forward frame braceing above the stearing rack that makes this swap more difficult to do! I have worked on this swap on the 84, 85, and 86 cars so I know they work fine, the later cars like the 1992 with the heivier forward frame braces above the stearing rack look like they will be more dificult but still do-able with some extra work, btw theres a guy at ARIZONA SPEED AND MARINE that has one you might want to talk to .just a few points
an all aluminum bbc WEIGHS LESS THAN AN IRON SMALL BLOCK so the HANDLING IMPROVES
an aluminum head, intake and water pump bring a bbc engines weight to within 70 lbs of the stock iron small block, so handling is almost unchanged

any un-supercharged small block not useing nitrous or some other power adder that makes over 550 hp is highly likely to be at least somewhat unstreetable as a daily driver and your not likely to build a small block that makes "764 HP & 695 lb/ft at the flywheel" likely costs as much or more than a big block makeing similar power, look, good engine choice
_______

heres a few pictures




it will of course depend on the engine combo you chose , and traction is usually a problem but low 12 second to mid 11 seconds is not at all hard for the cars Ive worked on. now you could build a kick butt engine and get into the 10s with ease but at that hp level the rear suspension and rear end itself tends to need work! the strong point here is that unlike a high hp sbc engine with nitrous and a huge cam, these cars are relitively easy to drive as daily drivers and the passing power with just part throttle is necessary to feel to be believed. plus the viper guys get really upset when you pull next to them at 50mph and pull away like they have a dead cylinder with the better chevy bbc engine combos, but you really are better off with aluminum heads/water pump and intake. btw getting a kick butt bbc is very easy, and far cheaper than a viper engine. btw the 700r4 trans or the manual trans that comes in the corvettes won,t handle a 550hp plus engine for long, but the 4L80E OVERDRIVE automatic TRANSMISSION chevy installs in the larger trucks can be used (EXPENSIVE BUT THATS WHAT I BOUGHT FOR MY FUTURE SWAP)

http://popularhotrodding.primediaautomotive.com/archive/features/0102_phr_features01.shtml

http://www.ideasandsolutions.biz/Hoover/top.html

http://shop.theengineshop.com/dr/v2/ec_MAIN.Entry16?SP=10024&PN=29&xid=42186&V1=30014126&V2=30014126&V3=1&V5=11000185&V4=10&S1=&S2=&S3=&S4=&S5=&DSP=0&CUR=840&PGRP=0&CACHE_ID=0


keep in mind the cost versus performance ratio, a nice C-4 vette can be purchased for $6000-$20,000 add that $9000-$15,000 BBC drivetrain and youll have a car that kicks 99% of the cars on the roads butts (INCLUDEING MOST VIPERS) for about $16,000-$35,000

the rear ends hold up fairly well untill you use slicks, street tires won,t normally get enough traction to break things unless you use nitrous
both the 4 plus 3 manual and the 700r4 trans will work for awhile especially if your not trying 3000rpm launches all the time, the 700r4 trans can be built fairly tough but if your intent is to get 10 second 1/4 mile drag times then no! youll need to upgrade the trans to a 4L80E or TH400 with a serious big block or one of the sturdier manual transmissions
heres a few links

http://www.peachstatechevelles.com/muncieid.html

http://www.4speeds.com/muncie2.htm

http://www.yearone.com/updatedsinglepages/Id_info/muncie.htm

http://www.5speeds.com/kit.htm

http://www.drivetrain.com/saginaw3_4sp.html

http://members.rogers.com/mlvd/muncie_rebuild.htm

http://www.gm.com/automotive/gmpowertrain/transmissions/hydra/apps/4l80.htm



if your really looking for 600hp and you have a lot of spare change , drop in one of these 540-632 displacement engines, and run mid 10s with some suspension/tires and tuneing and a few mods like moving the battery to the trunk area and swapping to a light weight set of seats , adding a roll cage,ETC.

http://www.sallee-chevrolet.com/Sneak/Previews.html

http://www.theengineshop.com/engine6.shtml

http://www.theengineshop.com/engine3.shtml

http://www.diabolicalperformance.com/diabolical540.html



almost anything can be done with a little care and thought! now something like that under the hood with a set of this injection would look neat

 

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"Great info, Grumpyvette! Aren't BBC parts more expensive?"

yes and NO! it depends on your hp goals, at about 470-500hp it starts getting to about the same cost per hp, bye 600hp its much more expensive to keep increasing hp on a sbc over the cost of a similar hp bbc engine
look
heres a 650 hp sbc engine for $about $10,000

http://www.theengineshop.com/engine5.shtml


HERES A 650 hp BBC engine with much more torque for less money

http://www.theengineshop.com/engine3.shtml

theres no contest as to which engine will make the car faster,(BBC 540 with that massive torque curve)
 

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DC Crew
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Well, if you already have a SBC, wouldn't it be cheaper to just build that pup up.... versus swapping out for a BBC?

Basically, I'm just wondering why more folks don't go BBC's. Any ideas?
 

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"Basically, I'm just wondering why more folks don't go BBC's. Any ideas?"

THATS TOOOOO EASSSSYYY TO ANSWER!
most guys don,t have the SKILL OR THE FINANCES, OR A SHOP TO DO THE SWAP IN!

MOST GUYS ARE AFRAID TO DO MAJOR MODS THAT ARE NOT DIRRECT PARTS SWAPS

most guys build up their cars over time with bolt on parts ONLY, PARTS that don,t cost much (COMPARED TO A FULL NEW ENGINE) or take ANY CUSTOM WORK OR PARTS OR MINOR CUSTOM FITTING ON THE CAR

MANY GUYS DON,T HAVE THE FRIENDS, TOOLS , SKILL. KNOWLEDGE, to do the work, HOW MANY TIMES HAVE YOU TALKED TO GUYS THAT THINK PULLING AN ENGINE IS WAY BEYOND THEIR SKILL LEVEL., ID be most surprized if many corvette owners could swap a transmission!

now don,t take it wrong, theres about 10%-20% of the corvette owners that if given a check list and detailed instructions could do the work, but that still leaves 80%-90% that will never even attempt the swap!
 

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Discussion Starter #8
This is something I'm seriously considering. It seems that you have to put more into a SBC to get the same torque that you can start off with the BBC. And if you want to go insane, then you can turn the BBC into a stroker or Supercharge or Turbo it. But at least those are options you may not need to do since a moderately modified BBC will put out more than enough to get the Vette to speed.:thumbsup:
 

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DC Crew
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Hey Grumpy, Will any big block work? I have a 76 Chevy dually that I'm parting out but I'm keeping the engine It is a 454 I think 2 bolt main but I haven't had it apart yet does two or four bolt matter?
As always thanks for the great info! :thumbsup:
 

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two bolt main blocks are just fine under about 550hp in a big block as long as you use ARP main cap studs
yes any big block will work as far as moving the car but unless you use aluminum heads,intake,and water pump youll notice the differance in weight over the front end.
 

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truck block (raidmagic)

correct me if i am wrong grumpy but wouldnt raidmagic block have to be milled as i belive truck blocks have a taller deck... correct???

:lookinup:
 

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Redmanf1

is correct almost all cars and lite trucks came with the standard 427 blocks having the standard 9.8 inch deck height, some large trucks came with 10.2 inch TALL blocks

heres the cast #s
http://www.nastyz28.com/bbcmenu.html#engine

heres where to get better quality BBC blocks
http://www.sallee-chevrolet.com/World_Castings/MerlinII_Bare_Blocks.html

the standard deck blocks work fine up to about 496-540 displacement but the AFTERMARKED tall deck blocks are THE PREFERED RACING BLOCKS when engine displacements exceeding 540 cid are built like the 572-705 displacement engines some guys use

http://www.sonnysracingengines.com/flyers/632CUINBIGDUKE.htm

or if you have $52,000 to waste

http://www.sonnysracingengines.com/flyers/762CUIN1540HP.htm
 

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Discussion Starter #19
Patrick96LT4 said:
Let's do it this winter, I'd love to help wrench and learn a bit! :cheers:
Sounds like a fun project. Just something about a mega torque mill under the hood is very appealing.:cheers:
 
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