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What is the most abundant natural resource in our nation?

Natural gas.

Instead of nuclear, why not natural gas powered turbines used to spin electrical generators? It's cheap. It's abubdant. It's clean.

We could even convert current coal fired generators to natural gas.

How does nuclear work? It heats water into steam to produce electricity.

Why not use natural gas?

To me, this is a no-brainer.

I know GE already has natural gas powered generators. Why aren't we pushing this idea? Is Big Oil blocking this technology? The coal companies?

or is all the leadership in our Republic just stupid?

Bingo !!
 

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not alternative enough for the administration. gotta be something grossly inefficeint/costly for him to want to invest in it
 

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You give me enough beer and I swear I could generate my own power with the right equipment.

Seriously, I like the current price of natural gas. Heater, water heater, stove, oven, grill, and back up generator use natural gas. Last month when it got really cold and we had rolling blackouts, my bill went up a whopping 30$.
 

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Because Big oil makes the largest campaign contributions


I've been saying the same about E85

The Corrupt California Government in Sacramento and the NAZI'S over at C.A.R.B have made it near impossible to sell E85 in California

Despite the fact that there are Millions of people who would like to Keep their money here at home by buying Domestically produced and the much cleaner burning E85

In California we have Thousands and Thousands of Flex fuel vehicles that are not being used because Of C.A.R.B and their Corrupt system they have all us Californians living under,

C.A.R.B Needs to be De-Funded like the EPA, is going to be gone very soon:nuts:
 

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Because Big oil makes the largest campaign contributions


I've been saying the same about E85

The Corrupt California Government in Sacramento and the NAZI'S over at C.A.R.B have made it near impossible to seel E85 in California

Despite the fact that there are Millions of people who would like to Keep their money here at home by buying Domestically produced and much cleaner burning E85

In California we have Thousands and Thousands of Flex fuel vehicles that are not being used because Of C.A.R.B and their Corrupt system they have all Californians living under,

C.A.R.B Needs to be De-Funded like the EPA is going to be very soon:nuts:
You mean like the Koch Brothers?

The owners of the largest natural gas pipeline company? They are paying to keep natural gas off the market?
 

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Put stationary bikes in every government office and congressional seat. Make them all pedal their ass off to generate electricity for DC area buildings.
 

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I would disagree, I think solar is the most abundant.

I read once that it would take a solar field the size of delaware to power the country.
Well I'm from delaware and its freaking small compared to the desert in arizona.
I say start building the great solar field of delaware in arizona. If we ever run out
of sun we have bigger issues then our next power source.
 

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A "typical home" in America can use either electricity or gas to provide heat -- heat for the house, the hot water, the clothes dryer and the stove/oven. If you were to power a house with solar electricity, you would certainly use gas appliances because solar electricity is so expensive. This means that what you would be powering with solar electricity are things like the refrigerator, the lights, the compute-r, the TV, stereo equipment, motors in things like furnace fans and the washer, etc. Let's say that all of those things average out to 600 watts on average. Over the course of 24 hours, you need 600 watts * 24 hours = 14,400 watt-hours per day.

-From our calculations and assumptions abo-ve, we know that a solar panel can generate 70 milliwatts per square inch * 5 hours = 350 milliwatt hours per day. Therefore you need about 41,000 square inches of solar panel for the house. That's a solar panel that measures about 285 square feet (about 26 square meters). That would cost around $16,000 right now. Then, because the sun only shines part of the time, you would need to purchase a battery bank, an inverter, etc., and that often doubles the cost of the installation.

If you want to have a small room air conditioner in your bedroom, double everything.

Because solar electricity is so expensive, you would normally go to great lengths to reduce your electricity consumption. Instead of a desktop computer and a monitor you would use a laptop computer. You would use fluorescent lights instead of incandescent. You would use a small B&W TV instead of a large color set. You would get a small, extremely efficient refrigerator-. By doing these things you might be able to reduce your average power consumption to 100 watts. This would cut the size of your solar panel and its cost by a factor of 6, and this might bring it into the realm of possibility.

The thing to remember, however, is that 100 watts per hour purchased from the power grid would only cost about 24 cents a day right now, or $91 a year. That's why you don't see many solar houses unless they are in very remote locations. When it only costs about $100 a year to purchase power from the grid, it is hard to justify spending thousands of dollars on a solar system.

http://tlc.howstuffworks.com/home/question418.htm
 

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A "typical home" in America can use either electricity or gas to provide heat -- heat for the house, the hot water, the clothes dryer and the stove/oven. If you were to power a house with solar electricity, you would certainly use gas appliances because solar electricity is so expensive. This means that what you would be powering with solar electricity are things like the refrigerator, the lights, the compute-r, the TV, stereo equipment, motors in things like furnace fans and the washer, etc. Let's say that all of those things average out to 600 watts on average. Over the course of 24 hours, you need 600 watts * 24 hours = 14,400 watt-hours per day.

-From our calculations and assumptions abo-ve, we know that a solar panel can generate 70 milliwatts per square inch * 5 hours = 350 milliwatt hours per day. Therefore you need about 41,000 square inches of solar panel for the house. That's a solar panel that measures about 285 square feet (about 26 square meters). That would cost around $16,000 right now. Then, because the sun only shines part of the time, you would need to purchase a battery bank, an inverter, etc., and that often doubles the cost of the installation.

If you want to have a small room air conditioner in your bedroom, double everything.

Because solar electricity is so expensive, you would normally go to great lengths to reduce your electricity consumption. Instead of a desktop computer and a monitor you would use a laptop computer. You would use fluorescent lights instead of incandescent. You would use a small B&W TV instead of a large color set. You would get a small, extremely efficient refrigerator-. By doing these things you might be able to reduce your average power consumption to 100 watts. This would cut the size of your solar panel and its cost by a factor of 6, and this might bring it into the realm of possibility.

The thing to remember, however, is that 100 watts per hour purchased from the power grid would only cost about 24 cents a day right now, or $91 a year. That's why you don't see many solar houses unless they are in very remote locations. When it only costs about $100 a year to purchase power from the grid, it is hard to justify spending thousands of dollars on a solar system.

http://tlc.howstuffworks.com/home/question418.htm
My 10KW system cost me 25K to install, including three inverters. I produce 120% of my yearly use. I have two 64" LED tvs. Three central air systems, 1- 2 ton 1 -4ton and one variable from 1-3 ton. We have an electric close dryer. I have two lifts in my garage and all my cars are on battery tenders all the time. The power company buys my SRECs (solar renewable energy credits) for about $10K a year. I don't have any batteries, I send power into the grid when I make more electricity than I use, spinning my meter in reverse. When the sun doesn't shine the meter spins the other way. Again the system is designed to generate 120% of my highest recorded use. The power company buys back up to 20% of your over generation, so I also get a check from them once a year for the excess power that I have generated. I do not use many compact flourencent bulbs, just because I have a lot of dimmers in my house.

This isn't theory....this is reality. My solar photovoltaic system paid for itself in under 3 years. It has a 30 year guarantee. It now puts about $14k in my pocket a year, for the life of the system that will be about $378K....that aint chump change. Systems are only getting cheaper and more efficient, and systems like mine help the power companies ride out spikes without having to keep back-up plants on line and maintained.

I know that you hate all things green preacher....but this green power generation system puts green in my pocket and that is the green I like best.

PS: Since I installed my system three of my immediate neighbors have installed their own systems....they thank me all the time.
 

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What is the most abundant natural resource in our nation?

Natural gas.

Instead of nuclear, why not natural gas powered turbines used to spin electrical generators? It's cheap. It's abubdant. It's clean.

We could even convert current coal fired generators to natural gas.

How does nuclear work? It heats water into steam to produce electricity.

Why not use natural gas?

To me, this is a no-brainer.

I know GE already has natural gas powered generators. Why aren't we pushing this idea? Is Big Oil blocking this technology? The coal companies?

or is all the leadership in our Republic just stupid?

Bingo !!
Because of the abundance of natural gas in our area, we have many natural gas fired power plants serving us. I agree we need more. I think right now about 17% of our electricity is natural gas powered nationwide. I have heard calls for raising that to 35%, which I agree is a great goal. :thumbsup:
 

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Because of the abundance of natural gas in our area, we have many natural gas fired power plants serving us. I agree we need more. I think right now about 17% of our electricity is natural gas powered nationwide. I have heard calls for raising that to 35%, which I agree is a great goal. :thumbsup:
:agree:And another thing that many people do not realize is that natural gas is escaping into the atmpsphere all the time. If you capture it and burn it to produce electricity or heat you are keeping a very bad greenhouse gas from going into the atmosphere.
 

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My 10KW system cost me 25K to install, including three inverters. I produce 120% of my yearly use. I have two 64" LED tvs. Three central air systems, 1- 2 ton 1 -4ton and one variable from 1-3 ton. We have an electric close dryer. I have two lifts in my garage and all my cars are on battery tenders all the time. The power company buys my SRECs (solar renewable energy credits) for about $10K a year. I don't have any batteries, I send power into the grid when I make more electricity than I use, spinning my meter in reverse. When the sun doesn't shine the meter spins the other way. Again the system is designed to generate 120% of my highest recorded use. The power company buys back up to 20% of your over generation, so I also get a check from them once a year for the excess power that I have generated. I do not use many compact flourencent bulbs, just because I have a lot of dimmers in my house.

This isn't theory....this is reality. My solar photovoltaic system paid for itself in under 3 years. It has a 30 year guarantee. It now puts about $14k in my pocket a year, for the life of the system that will be about $378K....that aint chump change. Systems are only getting cheaper and more efficient, and systems like mine help the power companies ride out spikes without having to keep back-up plants on line and maintained.

I know that you hate all things green preacher....but this green power generation system puts green in my pocket and that is the green I like best.

PS: Since I installed my system three of my immediate neighbors have installed their own systems....they thank me all the time.
What is the size and location of the install? Company? And what is the cost per KW -standard and over the max?
 

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My 10KW system cost me 25K to install, including three inverters. I produce 120% of my yearly use. I have two 64" LED tvs. Three central air systems, 1- 2 ton 1 -4ton and one variable from 1-3 ton. We have an electric close dryer. I have two lifts in my garage and all my cars are on battery tenders all the time. The power company buys my SRECs (solar renewable energy credits) for about $10K a year. I don't have any batteries, I send power into the grid when I make more electricity than I use, spinning my meter in reverse. When the sun doesn't shine the meter spins the other way. Again the system is designed to generate 120% of my highest recorded use. The power company buys back up to 20% of your over generation, so I also get a check from them once a year for the excess power that I have generated. I do not use many compact flourencent bulbs, just because I have a lot of dimmers in my house.

This isn't theory....this is reality. My solar photovoltaic system paid for itself in under 3 years. It has a 30 year guarantee. It now puts about $14k in my pocket a year, for the life of the system that will be about $378K....that aint chump change. Systems are only getting cheaper and more efficient, and systems like mine help the power companies ride out spikes without having to keep back-up plants on line and maintained.

I know that you hate all things green preacher....but this green power generation system puts green in my pocket and that is the green I like best.

PS: Since I installed my system three of my immediate neighbors have installed their own systems....they thank me all the time.
The local power companies teamed up with a company experienced in financing these systems so people didn't have to have all of the money up front. Even in sunny TX, the numbers aren't as good as yours. Basically, they tell you it will take 15-20 years to break even on the system, but in the mean time, you will be helping improve air quality, etc. It's a good system, but a more realistic expectation is to break even after more than a decade. :thumbsup:
 

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What is the most abundant natural resource in our nation?

Natural gas.

Instead of nuclear, why not natural gas powered turbines used to spin electrical generators? It's cheap. It's abubdant. It's clean.

We could even convert current coal fired generators to natural gas.

How does nuclear work? It heats water into steam to produce electricity.

Why not use natural gas?

To me, this is a no-brainer.

I know GE already has natural gas powered generators. Why aren't we pushing this idea? Is Big Oil blocking this technology? The coal companies?

or is all the leadership in our Republic just stupid?

Bingo !!
The truth of the matter is that the most efficient way of producing electricity is nuclear. Even after the rediculous lengths that power companies have to go to, to build these plants at probably 100 times the price due to the need to ease the redicluos fears of the american people, they are still super profitable once they go on line. And reprocessing could reduce the spent fuel to a fraction of what it is today. Add a breader reactor and there is no longer a waste problem.

Remember that the 9.0 earth quake that hit japan did nothing to the nuclear plants. The tsunami did all the damage, and all the damage was to back up generators to power cooling pumps. If all the back-up generators had been put up high rather than on the ground, or if they simply had water towers to run water in to the system with gravity, all of these plants would be running today.
 

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Here is part of an article from the Ft. Worth Star-Telegram last summer describing the economics of the progam being offered in N. Texas. It all sounds well and good, but notice that the whole thing is made possible by a government subsidy that make the system be reduced from $26k to $11k. It's still not a system that can pay for itself on the open energy market.


Here's a typical lease: A 4-kilowatt array of 20 solar panels, sufficient for a three- or four-bedroom home, would have an initial leasing cost of $35 per month. A homeowner paying 12 cents per kilowatt-hour for electricity might reduce a monthly electric bill by $50 with the solar system, producing a net savings of $15 after the leasing fee, according to TXU.
The solar arrays range from 2.3 to 10 kilowatts, with initial leasing costs running $20 to $100 monthly. The cost rises 2.5 percent annually, meaning an initial $35 monthly lease payment would grow to $50.69 after 15 years.
Participants will make lease payments to SolarCity, separate from their electric bill. The program is made economically feasible by federal tax incentives and rebates, which lower the cost of a 4-kilowatt system from about $26,000 to $11,000.
Program requirements
TXU, which said it will receive small commissions from SolarCity for signing up participants, does not require homeowners to be its electricity customers to benefit from the solar program. But they must have a respectable credit score of 700 or more, have ample south-facing roof space and minimal shade, and be participants in the deregulated retail electric market.
A lease will run for 15 years, "within the sweet spot" of the useful life of about 20 to 25 years for solar panels, according to John Geary, TXU vice president for innovation. A homeowner who sells a residence before the lease expires could "pre-pay the balance of the lease and transfer it to the home buyer," with the panels likely boosting the selling price, he said. A homeowner who sold a home with leased solar panels on it and bought another residence in the area could have the panels moved to the new home, he said.
The Kramers
Ray and Mary Ellen Kramer, the retired Pantego couple, opted to lease a large system rated at about 9.7 kilowatts. Their lease payments will be $76.99 (not including sales tax, which brings it to $83.15). With the 2.5 percent annual increase in lease costs, their monthly payment will be $111.50 (plus sales tax) by the final year of the lease. Their total payments during the 15 years, not including sales tax, will be $16,563.
With a sizable 2,800-square-foot home and swimming pool, the Kramers use about 2,400 kilowatt-hours of electricity per month, said Ray, who worked as a research scientist for a major oil company.
He estimates that the solar panels will result in a net savings of $25 to $35 a month on their electric bill, after allowing for the cost of the monthly lease payment and sales tax.
But the Kramers see another benefit. Mary Ellen said embracing renewable energy sets an earth-friendly example for their four grandchildren. "We're really looking forward to getting the solar panels, and our 10-year-old grandson, Austin, is so excited about it," she said. "He's in the science mode like his grandfather."



 

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What is the size and location of the install? Company? And what is the cost per KW -standard and over the max?
The rate here is about 13 cents per KWH. My bill averaged out to about $350 a month. My system is made up of three sets of 16 panels that measure 2'X4', thats 48 panels or 384 sq feet.
 

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The local power companies teamed up with a company experienced in financing these systems so people didn't have to have all of the money up front. Even in sunny TX, the numbers aren't as good as yours. Basically, they tell you it will take 15-20 years to break even on the system, but in the mean time, you will be helping improve air quality, etc. It's a good system, but a more realistic expectation is to break even after more than a decade. :thumbsup:
My numbers are good because of the SREC program in effect in NJ. I also got in to a great program that paid for 2/3s of the system up front. My system would have cost 75K without that. But even at 75K, under the SREC program it would have been paid off in about 5 years. Again the SRECs put about $10k in my pocket a year. But the power companies see this as a net benifit, because they don't have to build and maintain back-up plants. Those plants can cost tens of millions just to build and then have to be constantly ready to kick in when called upon. In NJ there are companies now that will put solar panels on your house for free. You get the free power but they get the SRECs.
 

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The rate here is about 13 cents per KWH. My bill averaged out to about $350 a month. My system is made up of three sets of 16 panels that measure 2'X4', thats 48 panels or 384 sq feet.
Well I'm glad you shared that

I find it all very interesting

I like to be self sufficient and I plan to create my own system in the future

We have many guys in my local area that run on Solar and wind power, I live in an area where there is enough wind to generate a lot of power


So even just throw a prop on a couple of car alternators and generate power that way
 

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Well I'm glad you shared that

I find it all very interesting

I like to be self sufficient and I plan to create my own system in the future

We have many guys in my local area that run on Solar and wind power, I live in an area where there is enough wind to generate a lot of power


So even just throw a prop on a couple of car alternators and generate power that way
If you do so, and don't want to be on the grid, do not go for batteries. A friend of mine is completely off the grid, has a shitload of solar and wind generation and uses the excess to make hydrogen. He stores the hydrogen and uses it to power his car and he made up a fuel cell that can turn the hydrogen back into electricity when he needs it...like at night. He has a 50 acre spread and puts up new solar panels whenever he can afford to buy a few. He buys them at auction or from scrap dealers. Some have to be fixed, which he does very well. He makes his wind mills by winding his own generators and he uses cloth sails, which are held on with velcro and tear away if the wind gets too strong, to protect the system.
 

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How long will the subsidies hold out?
Also i think the austin area is the only locality with net metering-- the key to allowing you to "sell back" even then they don't pay you for extra power made-- so if you produce more your bill is always a zero.

or look at it from a non lease option assuming $35k Buy with incentives and such bringing you to $18k. using these prices
http://www.solarelectricsupply.com/systems/gridtie/discount-gridtie.html

Now I have no idea of my real consumption or if these are the best prices.. but using them as some napkin math.

Not sure of low interest rates for this but we'll assume two options first is a simple unsecured loan with rocking credit putting you at 9% say for eight years if you can get that long
That puts your cost at $263 per month for a total of $25.2K. for a $170 month electric bill you would run 12 years before pay off.

Same reasoning with a 6% home improvement loan for same 8 years is $236 per month or $22.6k total or about 11 years with the lower interest..

I'm single with no kids-- but I have a lot of electonics, toys and I keep it comfy during the summer. My bill averages $110-135 depending on season. Looking at a dollar averaging of 20% increase over 12 years putting my average bill at $145 per month it would take me 15years to pay off the 9% loan and about 13 years for the home improvements loan rates.

Then there is an assumption that I'll stay in my current residence for the 12 to 15 years and there is zero cost for repairs to break even. not likely

It's just not priced to pay off yet in many states/locales
 
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