[Marc Morgan]

Club members :

I need some advise. I like my 350 Crate( If I'd of had the $$ I'd have probably put in a 427 small block..oh well).
What to do with the Crate for the least amount of $$$

NOS? Supercharger? or Turbocharger?
I'd like your opinion on Pros and Cons.
I'd really like to have 400 HP( I know...power is like an addiction,...nevr enough) but just a mere 400Hp isn't that much..right? Cars off the showroom floor have that now!
Also , I don't really want to have to rebuild or "beef up" my current 350 HP
380ft/lb torgue 9.1:1 compression , cast iron pistons, steel connecting rods, Vortec cast iron cylinder heads with nodular cast iron crankshaft, engine. Also..I don't want to cut a hole in my hood so a "roots" style charger is out of the question

Is this possible?

Thanks
Marc

 

[ecordeddie]

Headers and side pipes baby!

I just put a set on my '79 L82 (225 stock) and the increase in hp was awsome with no mods to the stock engine. I'd guess I'm at about 250 to 260 now.


By the way, you must have a non-stock engine if you've got 350 hp already right?

If you do, then headers and side pipes with STS Baffles will gain you about 40 to 70 hp with that size motor! The bigger the motor the greater the gains with headers and side pipes.

Cheapest bang for the buck and you don't have to be an expert mech to do it. I went big dollar on mine and got all Stainless steel.....was about $1600 total package with headers, pipes, new plugs, wires, etc. You can save about $500 or so with ceramic or painted ones.

 

[mrvette]

The thing that sort of limits my suggestion is the heads....

no one I know of maked a DPFI setup for a Vortec headed SBC....

I would go with 113 aluminum 88-91 vette heads, put on a LT-1 intake bored for HEI ignition, get an agressive program there, and put on the headers , with whatever muffs you can live with, essentially i'ts where I wound up after tinkering around about a decade....obviously this is a roller engine....
~400 hp in a daily street driven machine is plenty, really, 3100 lbs car??

I did take some weight off,....

 

[DJ Dep]

You could do the same thing they did with this engine:

http://www.crateenginedepot.com/sto...t-Cam-Installed-12496769-HOT-CAM-P962C53.aspx

350CI, 425 HP. Maybe you should have held off and bought this to start with

Gene is 100% correct about one thing....the CHEAPEST way to GO FASTER is to LOSE WEIGHT. Not you...the car
The goal IS to go faster and not just walk around saying "I got 400 horsepower". Old Cadillacs had 400 horsepower and they were slow. You want to have 400 horsepower and be FAST. Figure out ways to cut down on the curb weight of the car and that will help a lot. Noisy exhaust may SOUND "fast", but the simple fact is as soon as you cork them up with mufflers, you are robbing the car of power. Headers work best WIDE OPEN. Not many places in this country that allow that. You didn't say if you wanted to go faster on the strip, or at a roundy-round/twisty track. If you want the most dramatic/noticeable/immediate 1/4 mile improvement (as well as being able to lay some awesome smokey patches on the street), then a stiffer rear end gear is the way to go. Not real expensive and it will let the smallblock do what it does best...make RPMs and HP. :thumbsup:

I know you aren't planning on doing anything stoopid like racing other cars on the street. :down:

Dep

 

[Ttype83]

It's not just the HP...Torque gets you going and HP keeps you there.
That's way the import list a 260hp engine that only runs in the 15's :laughing:

 

[DJ Dep]

It's not just the HP...Torque gets you going and HP keeps you there.
That's way the import list a 260hp engine that only runs in the 15's :laughing:

I've heard the tork theory before. It seems to be popular with Vette owners starting in 1972 when those dash plaques STOPPED showing horsepower readings. :laughing:
Tork is useful if you want to pull a tree out by it's roots or haul a mobile home down the highway. If you are a tork addict here's the engine for you:


Duramax Diesel 6.6L V8 Turbo Engine
--------------------------------------------------------------

The available Duramax Diesel 6.6L V8 Turbo engine features:

With the required Allison six-speed automatic transmission:
365 horsepower @ 3000 rpm
660 lb.-ft. of torque @ 1600 rpm

I think my wife's pokey Ford Explorer with a tiny V6 can blow the doors off a tork monster like that :laughing:

 

[kwplot34]

Why can't we have both HP & TQ, why settle for one when you can have Two :devil:




Kevin

 

[rjent]

Torque is a measurment of force. Horsepower is a calculated value based on torque and time. They are two completely different concepts.

see: http://www.digitalcorvettes.com/forums/showpost.php?p=537844&postcount=8



This is not a debatable item. It's the way it's done. Period. :thumbsup:

 

[Raccerx67]

AWSOME job on that write up in the link rjent. I teach that exact same formula and principle in my Auto Service class. Its amazing to me how hard it is to get my students to understand that theory at first and after a few days of playing with the numbers bench racing per say, how they get the concept and it changes there whole outlook on drivetrain principles and what they really should be doing when they modify there cars or what BS someone is feeding them at there local hang outs on the weekends. Thanks for taking the time to put that all togather in a easy to understand form.
Ever think about becoming a teacher? You deff could do good for some youth in the world!

:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

 

[rjent]

AWSOME job on that write up in the link rjent. I teach that exact same formula and principle in my Auto Service class. Its amazing to me how hard it is to get my students to understand that theary at first and after a few days of playing with the numbers bench racing per say, how they get the concept and it changes there whole outlook on drivetrain principles and what they really should be doing when they modify there cars or what BS someone is feeding them at there local hang outs on the weekends. Thanks for taking the time to put that all togather in a easy to understand form.
Ever think about becoming a teacher? You deff could do good for some youth in the world!

:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

Thanks bro, but I can't take full credit for that. I have taught and understood the theory since I was in HS in the '60's. I found that dissertation a few years ago and I like quoting it. It was written by Bruce Augenstein and I just find his way of putting it, most people can grasp the concept.

BTW, I have been a teacher (in some courses I have done for the community college):thumbsup:

 

[Turbo84]

Why can't we have both HP & TQ, why settle for one when you can have Two :devil:
Kevin

You do have both. You can't have horsepower without torque. (You can have torque without horsepower, but I'm wagering you don't have a steam engine under the hood.)

 

[DJ Dep]

Let me eleiminate the e=mc2 techy stuff and simplfy things....

Tork is for haulin loads...horsepower is for haulin ASS. :thumbsup:

Given the choice about which one I want MORE of in my Vette, make mine horsepower. I don't plan on using my Vette out in the fields moving boulders around.

 

[mrvette]

Let me eleiminate the e=mc2 techy stuff and simplfy things....

Tork is for haulin loads...horsepower is for haulin ASS. :thumbsup:

Given the choice about which one I want MORE of in my Vette, make mine horsepower. I don't plan on using my Vette out in the fields moving boulders around.

TimAT, knows about where I"m at with my old Lemans/GTO convertible....462 with 550 ft lbs at idle....car dead empty 4100 lbs, boat dead empty 2900 lbs add g/f, me, two early teen kids, gear, gas, crap....and easy 8000 lbs....

hit South Mountain outta Fredrick Md, going to the upper Potomac River for tubing with kids...4 miles of 10% grade going up.....start at 80 mph....
open up the 1000 cfm DPFI Throttle body on that thing....car surges forward, kids fall silent cause the know i'ts in for a ride....top down, air rushing by, passing sports cars of every description, trucks, traffic, towing a BOAT....hitting 100 mph at top of crest where the Appalachian trail crosses I 70.......the open induction MOAN, the roar of exhaust, and that car was FUN.....

obviously, I lifted at crest, and let the whole rig settle down without tapping the brakes too much.....

THAT's TORQUE......

for a CAR that is...

:WTF :cheers:

 

[DJ Dep]

Tork is something to brag about for people with too little horsepower and RPM (which is why Chevy switched to tork readings on the console plates in 1972). All my life none of my buddies or myself ever even knew what tork was being put out by our cars.
I could care less what a car "feels" like or street performance. I just want to see the time slips after the 1/4 mile.

 

[Marc Morgan]

I'm sorry but this thread seems to be unravelling!
All I wanted was some pros and cons about SC v.s. Turbo.
I'm not a racer and don't plan to put my 79 vette on the 1/4 track. But yes it is fun to sit a stoplight knowing that when you let out on the clutch and hit that accelerator that the "horsepower" in your engine creates the "torque" in the cars mechanics to put you back in your seat and watch everyone else ( for that brief "legal" moment) get small real fast in your rearview mirror! I also belong to a corvette club and what muscle car owner doesn't want a little bragging rights!

I only want 400hp ( don't know what that would be at the wheel; don't really care...gotta be more than I have now) SC or turbo both will do it but maybe there are tradeoffs...that's what I'm asking. BTW I need to correct my engine spec..Its not 350HP its a 350cid with 330 rated HP. With performance Edlebrock intake, Holley 650cfm , headers with Flowmaster Super 40's at the wheel its maybe 260 if I'm lucky? any educated guesses.

Marc

 

[Ttype83]

I don't have my desktop dyno no more...but you are close with 260-280 to the rear wheels. Cheapest bang for the buck would be a SC..little to change..Front belt setup and a carb to handle boost, fuel pump, fuel pressure Reg.. A turbo (single) would require: carb to handle boost, fuel pump, fuel pressure Reg, Custom Down pipe and rework of your exhuast...there is more to it. on either you can add about 8-10hp per pound of boost. But this depends on heads, exhuast, heat.

 

[mrvette]

Tork is something to brag about for people with too little horsepower and RPM (which is why Chevy switched to tork readings on the console plates in 1972). All my life none of my buddies or myself ever even knew what tork was being put out by our cars.
I could care less what a car "feels" like or street performance. I just want to see the time slips after the 1/4 mile.

Remember the digs from 40 years ago?? like yesterday, those Super Duty Pontiacs showing up, aluminum bumpers/fenders/hoods/liners....whatever...

I also remember a guy with a '60 Bonneville WAGON, damn thing weight 5500 lbs filled with helium easy....he turned like lo 13s with it....automatic, ran with tail gate down for tracktion....8 bolt aluminum KH brakes...

never spun a wheel, just dug in a lunged like a cat on takeoff...

it was funny to listen to the differances in engines too....the SBC/Fords/MOpars with the high revs vs the torque monsters like the Pontiacs with the LO note headers.....long as hell, remember the SD aluminum headers, I had the long iron versions of them....HEAVY!!!! :devil:

 

[BlackDog82]

BTW I need to correct my engine spec..Its not 350HP its a 350cid with 330 rated HP. With performance Edlebrock intake, Holley 650cfm , headers with Flowmaster Super 40's

June '07 issue of CHEVY High Performance featured a story where their staff took a 290 HP crate-motor (verified @ 315 HP outta the box ), added CS270H CompCams cam, Fast-Burn heads, RPM Air Gap intake, and using the same 650 Holley carb, it made 385 HP @ 5600 & 407 TQ @ 4200:
some of that information may help you.

 

[rjent]

Tork is something to brag about for people with too little horsepower and RPM (which is why Chevy switched to tork readings on the console plates in 1972). All my life none of my buddies or myself ever even knew what tork was being put out by our cars.
I could care less what a car "feels" like or street performance. I just want to see the time slips after the 1/4 mile.

Did you even READ the thread on torque/horsepower? :huh:

I'm sorry but this thread seems to be unravelling!

Marc

They usually do ... :buhbye:

 

[SMYDA]

Speaking of torque..............My Dutch buddy who works at a local
speed / machine shop had a Dodge Dually with the Turbo Diesel.
It was stock except for some external tweeking. Said it made
800 lbs of torque at the rear wheels. Had no reason no to believe
it cause their shop has all the dynos to confirm this.

Stab to accelerator on that beast and it would pull so hard it would
darn near empty the change out of your pockets. I have never rode in
a car that would accelerate like that.