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Discussion Starter #1

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any minute now dune is going to come in here and say it was staged....just like all the vid and pics from the capital building
 

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What's the matter? Don't like it when the left does it, but the right can do it for 2 years and you say... nothing?

NOTHING!!!

Just like the fireman who refused to help Giffords because he disagreed with her politics. What? No one going after him?

WELL?!
 

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What's the matter? Don't like it when the left does it, but the right can do it for 2 years and you say... nothing?

NOTHING!!!

Just like the fireman who refused to help Giffords because he disagreed with her politics. What? No one going after him?

WELL?!
While it is disturbing that the firefighter did not respond to the call for whatever reason, you left out the fact that his unit was dispatched an hour and a half after the incident...... long after the Congresswoman was removed from the scene. So stop saying he refused to help her. In fact, he says he voted for her.

Ekstrum's crew, specially trained for large medical emergencies, was only dispatched an hour and a half after the shooting
http://news.yahoo.com/s/atlantic/20...horefusedgiffordscallsayshesmisunderstood7040
 

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Discussion Starter #5
What's the matter? Don't like it when the left does it, but the right can do it for 2 years and you say... nothing?

NOTHING!!!

Just like the fireman who refused to help Giffords because he disagreed with her politics. What? No one going after him?

WELL?!
Stoooop, already -with this goofy ****. Listen to every one of the them on the left saying you don't do this. YOU are the ones that come running in here saying that we are the only ones doing it... and people are dieing because of it... while completely ignoring the 8 years prior of the most heinous and ugly adjectives that have ever been uttered about people and their retarded children.

Stop, already. Goofy !
 

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All those Wisco reps ran to Illinois to hide out.

Illinois should do the same thing as Wisc, but THAT won't happen.

Need to pay teachers and retired gubmint union workers, and pay for free health care for those gubmint union workers?

Just raise State income tax 75% and then borrow 8 Billion.

Illinois is being run into the ground.
 

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What's the matter? Don't like it when the left does it, but the right can do it for 2 years and you say... nothing?

NOTHING!!!

Just like the fireman who refused to help Giffords because he disagreed with her politics. What? No one going after him?

WELL?!
This is probably the dumbest thing I have had the pleasure to read in a long time :smack

Now that the priority is to stop spending and cut back on government cost, the Unions (left) will show how nasty they really are.

In all the bulshit posted here about how ruthless the tea party is, I do not recal a single threat displayed at any of the demenstrations in the last years. but the left has people on syndicated tv shows asking for people to die :spanked:

For all you on the left that feel Walker is wrong, I feel bad for you because that kind of thinking is what is wrong here in America. Walker's reform bill will pass, all the left can do is make it as nasty as they can but they will not stop it and due to the States running out of money thisis only the beginning.

Do the math, If a government worker is allowed to retire after 25 years and he /she is 52 ish, and has between 40-60% salary for pension and lives for another 35 years where did the money come from? the employee recived a heck of alot more than they paid in :lookinup: This is not sustainable sorry to say You think social security is a ponzy scheme this is
 

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While the video is entertaining there is just one problem. This isn't nessasarily a left wing demonstration. Many union teachers are conservatives, Republicans, and some are tea party members. You just don't know what the party affiliation of those protesting is. But I can tell you one thing...if this goes through as is,(with the exemption of some unions) all of those teachers who weren't democrats will be after this.

While I do completely support the banning of public sector unions, what is going on in Wisconsin, is bullshit. Again not that the teachers unions shouldn't lose the ability to collectively bargain, but that any other union was excluded. Why should police or firefighters be excluded from this law. It weakens the law and makes it look politicaly motivated. The deal that police officers get is one of the most repugnant to tax payers. The ability to retire after 20 years (available to police and fire men) at full pension is one of the worst examples of public union abuse of the tax payer. Stupid move , motivated by a lack of backbone again, and one that will kill the ability of this to move forward into any other state.
 

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While the video is entertaining there is just one problem. This isn't nessasarily a left wing demonstration. Many union teachers are conservatives, Republicans, and some are tea party members.
:rolling: Stop it already... :crazy: The goofiness is getting out of hand around here..

Your parroting the lies of the left, I know it will be a challenge, but go to the gov's website and read the actual bill, or go read the madcow thread.. your just pumping lies that are being produced by the obamabots.
 

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While the video is entertaining there is just one problem. This isn't nessasarily a left wing demonstration. Many union teachers are conservatives, Republicans, and some are tea party members. You just don't know what the party affiliation of those protesting is. But I can tell you one thing...if this goes through as is,(with the exemption of some unions) all of those teachers who weren't democrats will be after this.

While I do completely support the banning of public sector unions, what is going on in Wisconsin, is bullshit. Again not that the teachers unions shouldn't lose the ability to collectively bargain, but that any other union was excluded. Why should police or firefighters be excluded from this law. It weakens the law and makes it look politicaly motivated. The deal that police officers get is one of the most repugnant to tax payers. The ability to retire after 20 years (available to police and fire men) at full pension is one of the worst examples of public union abuse of the tax payer. Stupid move , motivated by a lack of backbone again, and one that will kill the ability of this to move forward into any other state.
I agree with you, there should be no public sector unions and that this bill should apply to all public sector unions in WI. I feel it is at least a start in the right direction. I do not believe that all these teachers will become dems after this, partly because I have changed the minds of several people I know who were told by their union reps that the bill would strip all barganing rights and permanently disband the union at the end of the year- I showed them the actual bill and how none of that was actually in it and they suddenly realized the bill wasnt that bad afterall.
 

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This isn't nessasarily a left wing demonstration. Many union teachers are conservatives, Republicans, and some are tea party members. You just don't know what the party affiliation of those protesting is. But I can tell you one thing...if this goes through as is,(with the exemption of some unions) all of those teachers who weren't democrats will be after this.
Yea, all those protesters in Madison voted for the Republican party along with Walker right? :laughing:

What do you mean "If", you meant when right? :lookinup:
 

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This "Hateful" talk comes from both sides, right and left.
It looks like no one has learned the lesson from the Giffords shooting.

Stop the hateful and personal attacks and get back to discussing party ideals.

If you don't like the way things are going with the various current administrations, figure out how to convince people to vote for your "people" when the next elections come around. Until then deal with it and work on changing the laws back.
 

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:rolling: Stop it already... :crazy: The goofiness is getting out of hand around here..

Your parroting the lies of the left, I know it will be a challenge, but go to the gov's website and read the actual bill, or go read the madcow thread.. your just pumping lies that are being produced by the obamabots.
You are absolutly right the goofiness is getting out of hand. Why bother showing that these people are angry and saying things that the right says when it gets angry. Do you realy think that you are changing any minds? This is just a distraction form an important bill and one that can have positive affects all over the country. But this sort of billshit deminishes the law...that and the exemption of the police and firefighters union.
 

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You are absolutly right the goofiness is getting out of hand. Why bother showing that these people are angry and saying things that the right says when it gets angry. Do you realy think that you are changing any minds? This is just a distraction form an important bill and one that can have positive affects all over the country. But this sort of billshit deminishes the law...that and the exemption of the police and firefighters union.

The first story I read about this mentioned the exemption for cops and firefighters. I wondered what that was about. Was it just that they thought the public would support those groups more than other public employees? It seems kind of timid to me to exempt those groups. Anybody heard their rationale for that exemption?
 

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The first story I read about this mentioned the exemption for cops and firefighters. I wondered what that was about. Was it just that they thought the public would support those groups more than other public employees? It seems kind of timid to me to exempt those groups. Anybody heard their rationale for that exemption?
The police and firefighters publicly supported the governor the teachers union did not. But when this law stands to become the patern for other states, this quid pro quo should not stand as part of this bill. Furthermore allowing this exclusion simply makes this look political rather than the fairness to the taxpayer issue that it should be.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
The first story I read about this mentioned the exemption for cops and firefighters. I wondered what that was about. Was it just that they thought the public would support those groups more than other public employees? It seems kind of timid to me to exempt those groups. Anybody heard their rationale for that exemption?
I believe that it has more to do with the ideology of what governments roll is. We have always stated that -that sector of government, police, fire, etc. -is governments job to regulate. I don't believe any of us have a problem with this sector receiving "special benefits" due to the dangers of protecting the citizens.
 

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I believe that it has more to do with the ideology of what governments roll is. We have always stated that -that sector of government, police, fire, etc. -is governments job to regulate. I don't believe any of us have a problem with this sector receiving "special benefits" due to the dangers of protecting the citizens.
Holy **** are you full of it. Why the hell should one group of public workes be able to unionize and another not. This bill is flaud because this stupid governor chose not to piss off the guys who supported his election. This is what has ****ed the tax payer year after year. This is what you claim to be the problem with public unions when they support the left but if they ever support the right then it is not a problem. You have once again proven that you do not actualy hold any true beliefs that cannot be subverted by your handlers telling you that you should. You are led by the nose by the propaganda put out by Fox news and your ideology is constantly compromised due to it.
 

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The police and firefighters publicly supported the governor the teachers union did not. But when this law stands to become the patern for other states, this quid pro quo should not stand as part of this bill. Furthermore allowing this exclusion simply makes this look political rather than the fairness to the taxpayer issue that it should be.

You got it exactly right. Found this article describing the exemption situation:

http://www.thenorthwestern.com/arti...udget-bill-sparks-questions-political-payback

I agree that there should not be exemptions for these groups. It may be that Walker simply knew that he had to limit the number of fronts in his war to be able to pull it off. By exempting the two largest unions, he doesn't have to spend time and political capital fighting them. Every war has a strategy phase. I think this is the result.
 

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Discussion Starter #19
Holy **** are you full of it. Why the hell should one group of public workes be able to unionize and another not. This bill is flaud because this stupid governor chose not to piss off the guys who supported his election. This is what has ****ed the tax payer year after year. This is what you claim to be the problem with public unions when they support the left but if they ever support the right then it is not a problem. You have once again proven that you do not actualy hold any true beliefs that cannot be subverted by your handlers telling you that you should. You are led by the nose by the propaganda put out by Fox news and your ideology is constantly compromised due to it.
My goodness, you seem to be extremely agitated, today.

I believe I have made it quite clear that you and I agree in that, they should not be forced to unionize in order to wish to pursue a career in law enforcement and fire protection. That a simple state mandate affording them greater pay and benefits due to their career choice... is in order.
 

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You got it exactly right. Found this article describing the exemption situation:

http://www.thenorthwestern.com/arti...udget-bill-sparks-questions-political-payback

I agree that there should not be exemptions for these groups. It may be that Walker simply knew that he had to limit the number of fronts in his war to be able to pull it off. By exempting the two largest unions, he doesn't have to spend time and political capital fighting them. Every war has a strategy phase. I think this is the result.
There is another side to that, that is extremely transparent. There are those on the left (none here, I'm sure) that realize the rift that this would cause within the party moment, as most in law enforcement and fire, hold a right leaning political view... and vote this way. Some holding a leftist view also realize this... and would side with our ideology, if only for a day... and only for a prescribed reason. An "agenda" an "alteration motive", if you will. What better way to separate those votes from the controlling party... then to remind of actions taken against them ? This is most obvious in those now arguing to reduce rights and pay in those "right voting" entities... by attributing sameness due to their state employment... by those who would taken sides with unions mere weeks ago, in every situational instance. It's all quite childish in it's implementation, really. -as it assumes that those participating in the debate... are far less intelligent then those instigating the subject.

It's naive and small, at best... but still, votes are votes. Everyone counts in the end.
 
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