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Discussion Starter #1
So... it is perfectly acceptable and appropriate for Krugman (NY Times editor, Nobel prize winner, economist... and darling of the left) to say "death panels will be a necessity -and the current administration is being dishonest -or at the minimum, kidding themselves -if they say they are not included"... but Palin and every other noteworthy Republican -are a bunch of fear mongering wack-a-doos -for even suggesting the possibility ?
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Paul Krugman, the left's economist of choice, has long sprouted the "benefits" of a government healthcare takeover. Yet one benefit that ... well... surprised me somewhat was his endorsement of "death panels" under Obamacare to cut costs. Have a listen to him here:


Okay, so he didn't actually endorse Death Panels, but what he did say is just as scary. He admitted that government bureaucrats - not doctors and patients - will decide what treatment is appropriate. And that this will "save quite a lot of money".

So, if you are in need of treatment, and you and your doctors agree on a course of action, a government bureaucrat can intervene and say "nope, sorry, too expensive". And this is coming from someone who supports the plan!

And if this isn't enough to send shivers down your spine, I don't know what will.

We've said it before, and we'll say it again: REPEAL AND REPLACE!
 

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I'm going to stand on the fence for the sake of debate. I am totally against the Healthcare Reform Act and everything it represents, including death panels. But if I step outside and look in at the problem - ever increasing medical costs with no end in sight - I don't see how this can end up any way except SOME group - hopefully a panel of doctors - rationally trying to figure out what end-of-life care is actually beneficial and what care is a costly prolonging of the agony. Since I don't have anyone in that scenario right now (I have had in the past), my rational side says we will not be able to afford forever the cost-is-no-object end-of-life care we have become accustomed to. Does anybody here think we will?
 

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But . . . but . . . there ARE no death panels in President Obama's health care program. Not now, not ever. Krugman said so, and said that anyone who said there was (such as Sarah Palin) was a member of the "lunatic fringe".

Just another lying liberal. But that's redundant. :lookinup:
 

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Solent Green has to come from somewhere, This might just turn into another "green" initiative :D

When you attempt to limit cost by limiting the amount of approved proceedures (by cost alone) can you not cause death to become a saving?:crazy:
 

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The right keeps up this rhetoric about death panels, but what they want is to let people who can't afford insurance die!!

:crazy:
 

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The right keeps up this rhetoric about death panels, but what they want is to let people who can't afford insurance die!!

:crazy:
Brilliant! :laughing:
 

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The right keeps up this rhetoric about death panels, but what they want is to let people who can't afford insurance die!!

:crazy:


:agree: the current gov wants people to die in the name of saving money
 

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:agree: the current gov wants people to die in the name of saving money
George Soros and his minions want people to die to make money.
 

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George Soros and his minions want people to die to make money.
:rolleyes:

People dying before they drain on the system saves red dollars as well as blue dollars. In fact, guys like Soros want them to stay alive as long as possible because of his holdings in big pharma and medical technologies. Dying before they need his products would send him to the poor house.
 

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:rolleyes:

People dying before they drain on the system saves red dollars as well as blue dollars. In fact, guys like Soros want them to stay alive as long as possible because of his holdings in big pharma and medical technologies. Dying before they need his products would send him to the poor house.
So your saying that's a big reason the bill got passed? Tides wrote the bill...yup, makes sense.
 

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How about actually executing a criminal once they have been sentenced to death. That would save a shitload of money.
 

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But . . . but . . . there ARE no death panels in President Obama's health care program. Not now, not ever. Krugman said so, and said that anyone who said there was (such as Sarah Palin) was a member of the "lunatic fringe".

Just another lying liberal. But that's redundant. :lookinup:
True, the "death panel" is not part of the Health Care bill. It was established in the Stimulus Bill passed prior to Health Care, and has nothing to do with "end of life" decisions. What it does do is establish a panel, appointed by the President, to review the cost effectiveness of medical procedures based on medical expense, age of recipient, and their ability to be a contributing member of our society. So if whatever you need costs more than your ability to provide a return benefit to society, it will not be approved.
 

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Solent Green has to come from somewhere, This might just turn into another "green" initiative :D

When you attempt to limit cost by limiting the amount of approved proceedures (by cost alone) can you not cause death to become a saving?:crazy:
The heath care budget has to be fixed. That means choices have to be made. If you bankrupt the system keeping aged terminal patients alive that would be a “fail”.

Here is my heath reform plan:
  • To get subsidized health care you must be included in a heath care database.
  • Treatment is prescribed by procedures.
  • There would need to be more than one acceptable procedure when there is more than one treatment option.
  • If a doctor follows approved procedure he cannot be sued.
  • Develop statistics on symptoms, test results, response to treatment, etc…
  • Modify
    procedures based on statistics obtained.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
I like it ! I'd be on board if it were catastrophic only... allowing for private business to create wealth by offering the Cadillac plans to those who are able to afford it.
 

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:laughing: Yes, when they hit 70, they should be on their own.
I doubt the govt will ever ditch the terminally ill.
It provides jobs.


Even if the govt does, a private industry will be born to fill that vacuum and then later get picked up again by govt once the system gets streamlined and cheap.




I fully expect something close to the Solid State Society, Noble Rot Senior Citizen System in the future.

As depicted in Ghost In The Shell, It's a health monitoring and aid system for seniors to monitor and extend their lives with minimal direct medical actions and keeps them bed ridden but alive as long as possible.
 
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