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Around Washington, D.C., if you mention Iowa, the first thing that will pop into most people's minds is "caucuses." But in Iowa, if you asked a local about the matchups, he'd most likely assume you were talking about wrestling. That's right, the non-metaphorical, sweaty, rough-and-tumble on the mat sort of wrestling.

This year's Iowa state championships attracted attention nationwide when the promising high school sophomore Joel Northrup (the fifth-ranked wrestler in the state) defaulted on his first match. He had drawn Cassy Herkelman, a female freshman, as his opponent, and he could not, in good conscience, wrestle a girl.

Northrup's statement was a model of clarity and simplicity: "I have a tremendous amount of respect for Cassy and Megan (Black, another female wrestler who made it to the state championships) and their accomplishments. However, wrestling is a combat sport and it can get violent at times. As a matter of conscience and my faith, I do not believe it that it is appropriate for a boy to engage a girl in this manner. It is unfortunate that I have been placed in a situation not seen in most high school sports in Iowa." Had he not declined to wrestle Herkelman, he might have won it all.

The New York Times, the AP, and other national news organizations noted that Northrup's father is a minister -- the suggestion being that such peculiar and backward views as the young man expressed must be chalked up to a religious sensibility. Most of the coverage stressed the "girl against the old boys network" angle. The Times headline captured the tone: "On Wrestling Mat, Girls Still Face Uphill Struggle."

But not every issue fits neatly into the little boxes that New York Times headline writers like to arrange. The liberal template is always that conventional practices -- like not having boys and girls wrestle one another -- are obsolete now that we believe in pure sexual equally. Clinging to the outmoded notion that wrestling might be one sport best kept separate is evidence of sexism.

Rick Reilly, writing at ESPN.com, responded to the Rev. Northrup's view that "we believe in the elevation and respect of woman" with contempt: "That's where the Northrups are so wrong. Body slams and takedowns and gouges in the eye and elbows in the ribs are exactly how to respect Cassy Herkelman. This is what she lives for. She can elevate herself, thanks."

Are we really sure we want to obliterate the last traces of chivalry in young men -- to stamp out every trace of protectiveness from the male psyche?

Even if we agree that young women should be body slammed and gouged and hurt if that's what they've signed up for, you have to be living in a dream world not to face the other reality of co-ed wrestling: It puts the boy at a disadvantage.

Not only is any well brought up young man going to hesitate to use his full strength against a young lady, he is also going to have to be so, so careful about where he touches her. The genital areas of both sexes are off limits, obviously. But girls also have breasts. So the boys have to be very careful not to grab the girl in such a way as might cause his hands to touch her breasts if she moves in an unexpected direction. One finger slip and the wrestler becomes a sexual harasser, no? The girl, by contrast, can push and shove and grab the upper body of her opponent without impediment.

And why are boys being put in this awkward situation? Because a small minority of high school girls has decided to wrestle. According to the National Federation of State High School Associations, more than 275,000 boys competed in wrestling during the last school year -- compared with only 6,000 girls. Five states -- California, Hawaii, Texas, Washington, and Tennessee -- sponsor girls-only high school wrestling tournaments. In the other states, girls are asked to compete against boys.

Supporters of co-ed wrestling insist that sex is the last thing on the kids' minds when they're in the arena, which is almost certainly false. These are, after all, teenagers. Even when not in close proximity to the opposite sex, even when not coming into physical contact with the opposite sex at all, a teenager will spend a generous amount of time thinking about sex.

Joel Northrup did the honorable thing by bowing out and refusing to wrestle a girl. He cited his conscience and his faith. They have been better guides for him than a misplaced gender neutrality has been to the state of Iowa.

http://townhall.com/columnists/monacharen/2011/03/01/should_boys_be_wrestling_girls/page/full/
 

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DES MOINES, Iowa -- Fourteen-year-old wrestler Cassy Herkelman doesn't need anybody protecting her from anything. She's broken her collarbone, split her lip, deviated her septum, wrecked her elbow, all from wrestling. She's about as dainty as a forklift.
She's her district's pony-tailed, 112-pound champion wrestler, boy or girl, kangaroo or camel. She's not a tulip, isn't a Jane Austen character, and doesn't wilt in the heat.
So why did her first opponent in the Iowa state high school wrestling tournament default rather than wrestle her?
Because "wrestling is a combat sport and it can get violent at times," said 16-year-old home-schooled sophomore Joel Northrup, in a statement. "As a matter of conscience and my faith I do not believe that it is appropriate for a boy to engage a girl in this manner."
Appropriate? When wrestling Cassy, the appropriate thing to do is cinch up your headgear tight. She relishes the violence.
Coming into state, the Cedar Falls freshman had won 20 of 33 matches, every one of them against boys. I'm guessing most of them have some kind of faith. I'm sure they all have consciences. And at the end of the match, most of them stood next to her while the ref raised her hand.


The Herkelmans -- and most of the state of Iowa -- praised Northrup for being a boy of faith. "It's his religion and he's strong in his religion," says Megan Black, the only other girl who made state. (These were the first two in the state's history. Black lost both her matches.) "You have to respect him for that."
Why?
Does any wrong-headed decision suddenly become right when defended with religious conviction? In this age, don't we know better? If my God told me to poke the elderly with sharp sticks, would that make it morally acceptable to others?
And where does it say in the Bible not to wrestle against girls? Or compete against them? What religion forbids the two-point reversal?
Remember, Northrup didn't default on sexual grounds. Didn't say anything about it being wrong to put his hands in awkward places. Both he and his father, Jamie, a minister in an independent Pentecostal faith called Believers in Grace Fellowship, cited the physical pounding of it.
"We believe in the elevation and respect of woman," the father told the Des Moines Register, "and we don't think that wrestling a woman is the right thing to do. Body slamming and takedowns -- full contact sport is not how to do that."
That's where the Northrups are so wrong. Body slams and takedowns and gouges in the eye and elbows in the ribs are exactly how to respect Cassy Herkelman. This is what she lives for. She can elevate herself, thanks.
“ If the Northrups really wanted to "respect" women, they should've encouraged their son to face her. When he didn't, it created a national media hurricane with Cassy in the eye of it.
”​
"She's my son," says her dad, Bill. "She's always been my son. Since she could walk, she's always been the tomboy, busting stuff up, walkin' through glass with her bare feet. Finally, her grandma said to me, 'You ought to get her wrestling.'" And she's been doing it since the second grade.
If the Northrups really wanted to "respect" women, they should've encouraged their son to face her. When he didn't, it created a national media hurricane with Cassy in the eye of it. She was surrounded by 20 of us Friday not for how she wrestled (she wound up being eliminated two matches later) but for how she didn't.
"I couldn't get focused," she said of the swirl around her. "I finally had to find a quiet place to try to lock in." Her coach took her cell phone away from her as well as Internet access, but it was all anybody here could talk about. Yes, she becomes the first girl in the 85-year history of the Iowa state wrestling tournament to win a match, but thanks to the Northrups, it's forever splattered with all this.
"I went out for wrestling," says Cassy. "I'm going to face what I'm going to face. This wasn't my choice, it was his."
"What Cassy wanted was to lock horns and see who was better," says her dad.
Could she have beaten him?
"I don't know," she says. "I've never wrestled him before. But from what I've heard, it would've been a close match."
I don't feel as bad for Cassy as I do for Joel. He was the fifth-ranked wrestler in the state at 112 pounds. He was 35-4. He had a chance to win the whole thing. In Iowa, that means a lifetime of people buying you lunch. It's corn-state royalty. To give all that up to protect a girl who loathes being protected? What a waste of a dream.
The last I saw Northrup, he was crying. After the default, he entered the consolation round, where he won his first match, then lost a heartbreaker in overtime, 3-2. He jogged past the scrum of reporters waiting to talk to Cassy, tears streaming down his face, unnoticed. He was done, with no chance to medal.
Neither he, nor his coaches, nor his dad, had any comment. He was reportedly on his way back home to Marion, Iowa, where his mom was about to deliver her eighth child.
For the kid's sake, I hope it's a boy.


http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/news/story?id=6136707
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Yeah but... how do you personally feel about it ? We already understand that she is capable, that is not the question. Rather, does her ability to hold her own, justify the forced acceptance and furthering of the de-gentrification of the sexes ?

What purpose does this serve ?
 

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Since I don't have any girls I can't speak from their perspective but wrestling is a FULL contact sport. If the girl doesn't mind and if there are no inappropriate touching fouls then if they want it, go for it. I know that there would be hesitation on the part of most young men to grab a crotch and flip her over onto her back. That would put the young men at a disadvantage. If you're in the down position it would be nearly impossible not to grab her around the chest and hence the breasts to achieve an advantageous position.

As long as the rules stay the same for both sexes and they mutually agree that there will be no quarter given then again....go for it. As I said, I don't have a girl child and if I did I'm certain I wouldn't want some testosterone junkie putting his hands anywhere near her goodies. I would never had let my daughter get into a position that would allow her to wrestle with the boys.

Although this is Kentucky, she's not Ellie Mae from the Beverly Hillbillies "wrasslin" with Jethro.
 

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I give the guy credit for respecting the female....but I would have held her down and dry humped he leg once or twice.
 

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Yeah but... how do you personally feel about it ? We already understand that she is capable, that is not the question. Rather, does her ability to hold her own, justify the forced acceptance and furthering of the de-gentrification of the sexes ?

What purpose does this serve ?
1) I'm going to go ahead and get this out of the way. The boy is a pussy for using religion as his excuse for not wanting to wrestle a girl. However, he should have never been put into that situation to begin with.

2) There's a reason why females compete against females and males compete against males. I don't care who you are or how feminist you are, on average, Homo sapien males are biologically stronger and more athletic than females, thus giving them an advantage in most physical competitions. And if anyone thinks otherwise--you need to get your ass off your shoulders. Yes, there are exceptions, like this particular female, but that doesn't mean that she should be allowed to compete with males because "she is just as good" and "can hold her own." Make her compete with other females. This is the kind of **** that ends up happening when you let females compete with males.
 

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IDK, seems kind of crazy to me.. put a sweaty 14 yr old boy on a mat with a sweaty 14 yr old girl... could get rather embarrassing and uncomfortable for the boy. :huh:
 

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I give the guy credit for respecting the female....but I would have held her down and dry humped he leg once or twice.
:laughing: I wonder how she would do when a guy has her pinned with his chubbby in her face during a match.

All jokes aside, females want equality with males, which is fine, but some lines should remain intact, and coed wrestling is just wrong IMO.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
2) There's a reason why females compete against females and males compete against males. I don't care who you are or how feminist you are, on average, Homo sapien males are biologically stronger and more athletic than females, thus giving them an advantage in most physical competitions. And if anyone thinks otherwise--you need to get your ass off your shoulders. Yes, there are exceptions, like this particular female, but that doesn't mean that she should be allowed to compete with males because "she is just as good" and "can hold her own." Make her compete with other females. This is the kind of **** that ends up happening when you let females compete with males.
Nicely put.
 

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This shouldn't be happening in a school setting. :down: People pay good money to see stuff like this take place. :thumbsup:
 

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:laughing: I wonder how she would do when a guy has her pinned with his chubbby in her face during a match.

All jokes aside, females want equality with males, which is fine, but some lines should remain intact, and coed wrestling is just wrong IMO.
I agree completely. People are picking on the fact that the boy cited religion as one reason he didn't want to wrestle the girl. But it wasn't the only reason. He clearly just thought it wasn't an appropriate match-up. I agree, and say good for him for standing up for what he thought was right. :thumbsup:
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Well put, also.
 

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If a girl wants to participate in HS wrestling and there is no girls wrestling team then why stop her? Because she might get groped? Tough ****, that's part of wrestling whether you're a boy or girl. Because boys are stronger that girls? So what, there are all sorts of different strength levels in any given weight class. You rely on technique and skill to overcome the other guy's brute force.

It's not Northrup's job to keep Cassy safe from injury. If she signed up to wrestle then she knows it's gonna hurt and she's accepted that fact.

As for embarrassment, since when did it become the job of the school or the government to protect highschool students from embarrassment? Good luck with that one.

Are we really sure we want to obliterate the last traces of chivalry in young men
:laughing: this one actually made me laugh. If you're looking for chivalry, don't look on the mats of a wrestling tournament.
 

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... He clearly just thought it wasn't an appropriate match-up...
would he feel that way about competing against a male freshman with a 0-30 record that couldn't bench his own body weight? I doubt it.
 

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Imagine the razzing to the boy that gets pinned by a girl.

We all know how kids are. Peer pressure, wize cracks, mental abuse....now add in the factor of being beaten by a girl. :laughing:

That aside, where does it stop? Girls on the football team? Girls on the boys varsity base-ball team? Girls on the boys basketball team?

How about boys on the girl's volleyball team? Boys on the cheerleading squad?
 

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That aside, where does it stop? Girls on the football team? Girls on the boys varsity base-ball team? Girls on the boys basketball team?

How about boys on the girl's volleyball team? Boys on the cheerleading squad?
What's wrong with any of that? We had a chick on our football team. I'm sure there are lots of highschools with coed cheer squads. Who cares? :huh:
 

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What's wrong with any of that? We had a chick on our football team. I'm sure there are lots of highschools with coed cheer squads. Who cares? :huh:
Why have any boys/girls anything?

Make it all uni-sex. :thumbsup:
No need for dual locker rooms, no need for all the extra coaches, no need for NCAA male/female organizations. Hell-if girls can play on the high school football team, why not college or professional? Let's put chicks on the NFL teams.

One big androgynous country.
 

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I'm not advocating doing away with separation of boys and girls sports entirely, so that's not at issue here. Wrestling is a low participation sport in most areas when compared to sports like football and basketball. When there are enough students of one particular sex to justify having a single sex sports team that only makes sense. But if there 6 girls in the state of Iowa that want to wrestle that's obviously not possible.

This is really just a debate of Title IX, under which federally funded schools must meet at least one of following three requirements:
1. Providing athletic participation opportunities that are substantially proportionate to the student enrollment, OR
2. Demonstrate a continual expansion of athletic opportunities for the underrepresented sex, OR
3. Full and effective accommodation of the interest and ability of underrepresented sex.
 

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would he feel that way about competing against a male freshman with a 0-30 record that couldn't bench his own body weight? I doubt it.
I don't know that much about wrestling. But in most fighting sports, opponents are matched by size and skill level to be sure neither has a huge advantage. With man vs. woman, who knows how to match them? Is a 130 lb man against a 130 lb woman an even match? I doubt it. So how much advantage do you give the woman? Do you give her 10% more weight? 20%? I just don't see how you match them up fairly.
 
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