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El Teafive
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10,489 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Patrick96LT4 said:
Jeff,

#1 timbre matched (don't mix/match speaker brands - but subs can be different). If they aren't matched, you'll FOREVER be trying to EQ the system. And, some speakers will have a tendency to dominate if they are significantly different in tone/sound than the rest.

#2 Component balance (cover all frequencies without overdoing any particular range... don't do 4 tweeters, 2 mid-range, and 8 subs)

#3 location for best imaging... you should not be able to tell where the speakers are with your eyes closed. It should just fill the car with sound with good seperation.

#3 component speakers themselves.

#4 amp technology (ability to handle peaks in music without straining). And, good power by default, with no need to crank the gain control thereby increasing THD.

#5 small/tight subs. 8" preferred, 10" ok. One sub is usually good for one car.

#6 Lastly, invest in a test CD and SPL meter from radio shack. Sit in the driver seat, turn OFF the sub, and get a test CD that can play noise. Watch your meter and turn the volume up to 75 Db.

Then, turn ALL of the speakers off, except for the sub. DO NOT change the volume control. If you have a gain control on your head unit, set it at the half way point (if it is 1-10 do 5) Now, running JUST the subwoofers, run a subwoofer test track off the test CD.

Dial in your sub for 75 DB by starting at zero gain ON THE SUB AMP and increasing the gain on your amp up as needed until you hit 75 db. If you can't get it below 75 Db, you have way to much bass. Set the sub amp to the lowest gain possible, then change the gain on the head unit to 10.

Then, bring the head unit gain down until you hit 75 DB. Now, you have a system that will ACCURATELY reproduce music.

Lastly, run the frequency-sweep track. That'll run a tone from 25,000 hz down to 20 hz. By listening to the sweeping tone, you can hear if you have any gaps or weakness to play certain ranges, or if some ranges are overboard (you can then play with crossovers or EQ ranges down).

Ok, I'm rambling at this point.

I think it is A-1 critical to first get your system set up to play music ACCURATELY. Leave it like this and don't mess with levels/settings for 2 weeks. You'll get used to how music is SUPPOSED to sound.

Lastly, resist the urge to monkey with the EQ after you get it dialed in. You'll forever be chasing your tail trying to get the system to sound "right".

:thumbsup:
Okay I agree with all you are saying.. Here is what I have right now..

Fronts:
Orion HCCA 5s Seperates (5.25 and 1" tweet)

Rear:
Earthquake EQ6 6" midbass (decent for bass in my vette)
pair of Infinity Tweets (wired 180deg and used to fill an obvious void)

Amp
A/D/S PH12 6channel non- bridgeable 25 watts per (may upgrade someday)

Crossover from 6" to 5.25 is around 120Hz.

My 5.25" are mounted in the doors and the tweets are in the bottom corners of the dash.

I NEED to move the tweeters to somewhere in the door and I think I can remove the rear tweeters and have a good sounding system.

I have an active crossover an A/D/S 642CSi which has a bass control as well.

I honestly think if I could move the tweeters and find that perfect spot, then get an A/D/S PH15 (old school 50watts per channel Bridgeable 6channel) It will be the perfect set-up..
 

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DC Crew
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53,221 Posts
-=Jeff=- said:
Okay I agree with all you are saying.. Here is what I have right now..

Fronts:
Orion HCCA 5s Seperates (5.25 and 1" tweet)

Rear:
Earthquake EQ6 6" midbass (decent for bass in my vette)
pair of Infinity Tweets (wired 180deg and used to fill an obvious void)


I would yank the rear tweets completely and focus on getting the fronts right. Since tweets are directional, and are for hi-freq & imaging, and you only have a 2 seat car, having them in the rear BEHIND the listener is not gaining anything. Seems you are just trying to make up for the bad front placement. Plus, having the mis-matched tweeters could make it difficult to EQ the system. The brightness of your front tweets should be enough.

Here is what I would try to solve the front tweet issue. Remove the tweets from where they and add 5 feet of speaker wire. Toss them on the dash, face up so they reflect off the windshield.

Because of the curvature of your windshield, you'll want to test bringing them closer to the front the dash, and further back where the dash/windshield meet. Obviously, if they are on/in the dash, the closer they are to the front of the dash, the higher up on the windshield they'll reflect toward your ears, drastically changing/affecting imaging. Further back, and they'll reflect lower, towards your chest. I would try various locations on the dash. Make sure you get out of the car for a few minutes in-between test movements. That is the only way to really "hear" the changes. If you just sit in the car the whole time your brain plays tricks on you.

Side not, I don't believe tweets should EVER be pointed directly at someone's ears or head, or be in close proximity of the listener. (don't put them in a-pillars) You don't want that "direct" of sound unless you can control the level of the tweets. But, I'd still avoid it.

Putting the tweets in the door is not the best choice. You are aiming the left channel to the right passenger, and the right to the left passenger. And, that's enough to ruin imaging completely. Even if you can adjust the direction of the tweets a bit, I don't think it's ideal.

Also, fabric, clothes or other soft surfaces will absorb tweet frequencies.

Amp
A/D/S PH12 6channel non- bridgeable 25 watts per (may upgrade someday)

Crossover from 6" to 5.25 is around 120Hz.
That crossover freq for the earthquakes is pretty low considering that 6" is a mid-bass driver. But, you can dial that in after getting the front imagine perfect. I'd work only with the orion's 5.25's and tweets (everything else off) until you get them in the ideal position/crossover/power-level for those critters. Once the front is good, then you can play with everything else.

My 5.25" are mounted in the doors and the tweets are in the bottom corners of the dash.
Not ideal for imaging, bad for freq reflection, and the overall "brightness" of the music.

I NEED to move the tweeters to somewhere in the door and I think I can remove the rear tweeters and have a good sounding system.
I'd avoid the door at all costs. Focus on the dash and reflecting off the windshield. Yes, toss the rear tweets. They are just there to make up for the tweet placement issue up front.

I have an active crossover an A/D/S 642CSi which has a bass control as well.

I honestly think if I could move the tweeters and find that perfect spot, then get an A/D/S PH15 (old school 50watts per channel Bridgeable 6channel) It will be the perfect set-up.. [/B]

Agree'd.

I've had some pretty COMPLICATED (and silly) systems over the years (several thousand watts and enough subs to bring down a small house) But, I had a "come to Jesus" when I sat in a Civic that simply had front component speakers (2 mid, 2 tweet) and a single 8" cannon sub. That's 5 speakers! That car sounded TEN TIMES better than mine (although mine was oxygen-robbing-eyeball-vibrating loud monster). And, you couldn't tell where the sound was coming from. A perfect system... yet so simple.

So, I soon matured and realized that SIMPLICITY, component quality and placement, and properly EQ'd were 90% of having a good sounding system. The more things you add, the more frustrating things get.

I can making a KILLER system in my Vette with simply a 4x25w amp and a 50w sub amp. Big wattage is a JOKE! Since wattage is logrythmic, most of the time you are below 10 watts per channel, if that. So, why do people need 100w per channel?

Are your front mid/tweet running off the same amp channel through a crossover? can u adjust the front tweet/mid level independently?

Sorry if this sounds like rambling again, I wrote this in fragments, my phone kept ringing.

:thumbsup:
 

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El Teafive
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10,489 Posts
Discussion Starter #3
I agree with everything..

As for the front Tweets, I will get on it when time allows for me to play in garage and move them around. I really don't want to cut the dash pad but if I find that perfect spot I will.

You are correct the rear tweets are a band aid until I can image the fronts better.

The 6" midbass actually sound perfect in the rear, they are in stock locations and I would rather keep them or move to 2 8" in each side.


You also asked about the Front Tweet/Mid coming from the same amp channel. Richt now they are off the same channel. once I remove the rear tweeters I can put the Crossovers for the Components in Bi-Amp mode to give me the level flexability at each speaker. I will keep the Passive Crossover network for the Components since it has some nice features in it.. Mainly Tweeter level.

EDIT= Oh yeah also getting the placement right on driverside might be easier then the passenger side due to the curving of the passenger side
I know if I can get the fronts imaged right I will be very happy without buying anything else
 

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DC Crew
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-=Jeff=- said:
I remove the rear tweeters I can put the Crossovers for the Components in Bi-Amp mode to give me the level flexability at each speaker. I will keep the Passive Crossover network for the Components since it has some nice features in it.. Mainly Tweeter level.
VERY cool that you'll be able to change the levels of those guys, that'll make a big difference, and greatly improve your ability to have a silky system that surrounds you with spacial sound.

EDIT= Oh yeah also getting the placement right on driverside might be easier then the passenger side due to the curving of the passenger side
You know, I forgot about that. But, depending on where the best placement is, I'm sure you could think of some ingenius way of installing them.

I know if I can get the fronts imaged right I will be very happy without buying anything else [/B]
I agree completely. Your whole stereo will come "alive".

:thumbsup:
 
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Hey Patty, all that **** you said about getting a sound meter and going to 75db, is that really necessary? I think my set up now sounds fantastic.
 

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DC Crew
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BIG LAW MAN said:
Hey Patty, all that **** you said about getting a sound meter and going to 75db, is that really necessary?
Yes, absolutely. Unless you want some hack system that doesn't accurately reproduce music -- and want to have to **** with the level/EQ/sub settings every time you put in a new CD.

But, I suspect the audio place that set up your gear knew what they were doing and set things up nicely.

Most people that do their own installs just dial in the sound to what "they like" versus accurately reproducing the music as it was meant to be heard. Never trust your ear.... always use instruments and test CD's....:thumbsup:
 
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Well bring your gear down here and test this bitch for me will ya!
 

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DC Crew
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BIG LAW MAN said:
Well bring your gear down here and test this bitch for me will ya!
I lost that stuff in the fire. I've borrowed the stuff since then for home audio stuff.... let me see what I can do. :thumbsup:
 

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Why are Corvettes so hard to get right when it comes to something as simple as music? I think I've got the right Idea here, but tell me what you think. Alpine 9813 CD/MP3/XM deck. Infinity 4x6 kappa plates reflecting back off windshield in dash run off deck power ([email protected]). JL Audio W3v2 8" sub sealed right behind passenger seat facing up run off 200watts rms. Or should I upgrade to the idea of a 10"? I still have holes in the door panels that could house 4" or a really shallow 5.25". Think this will be good enough or should I add a pair of door midrange/midbass? If I leave the door holes empty, I can just seal off the old bose hole and run carpet right overtop of it and no one will be the wiser. I want to keep everything in the factory locations and use the factory grilles to deter theives. Its already a Corvette and draws enough attention to itself.......... I don't want to use the rear holes as I'm not a fan of sound behind me. Maybe if I buy a pair and run little power just so its not silence behind me.
 

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DC Crew
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Patrick96LT4 said:
Yes, absolutely. Unless you want some hack system that doesn't accurately reproduce music -- and want to have to **** with the level/EQ/sub settings every time you put in a new CD.

But, I suspect the audio place that set up your gear knew what they were doing and set things up nicely.

Most people that do their own installs just dial in the sound to what "they like" versus accurately reproducing the music as it was meant to be heard. Never trust your ear.... always use instruments and test CD's....:thumbsup:
Never trust my ear? I'll be listening to it. :)

I don't think you can get accurate monitoring in a corvette. The speaker placement is way the hell off. :) And its not like a pair of ns10s will be any good in there anyway. :) heheh. Reflections?!

Car audio is a demon. Do what you think sounds good and that you can afford.
 
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