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Discussion Starter #1
Then the parents can just wack them after they are alive and can scream in fear because their parents never wanted them.
:thumbsup:
:crazy::crazy:





http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/04/16/mother-kill-children-society-_n_850094.html


Mothers Who Kill Children

NEW YORK -- "How could she?"

It's the headline du jour whenever a horrific case emerges of a mother killing her kids, as Lashanda Armstrong did when she piled her children into her minivan and drove straight into the frigid Hudson River.

Our shock at such stories is, of course, understandable: They seem to go against everything we intuitively feel about the mother-child bond.

But mothers kill their children in this country much more often than most people would realize by simply reading the headlines; by conservative estimates it happens every few days, at least 100 times a year. Experts say more mothers than fathers kill their children under 5 years of age. And some say our reluctance as a society to believe mothers would be capable of killing their offspring is hindering our ability to recognize warning signs, intervene and prevent more tragedies.

And so the problem remains.

"We've learned how to reduce auto fatalities among kids, through seatbelt use. We've learned how to stop kids from strangling on the strings of their hoodies. But with this phenomenon, we struggle," says Jill Korbin, an anthropologist at Case Western Reserve University who has studied mothers who kill children. "The solution is not so readily apparent."

How common is filicide, or killing one's child, among mothers? Finding accurate records is nearly impossible, experts say. One problem is classification: The legal disposition of these cases varies enormously. Also, many cases doubtless go unreported or undetected, such as very young mothers who kill their newborns by smothering them or drowning them in a toilet after hiding the entire pregnancy.

"I'd say a mother kills a child in this country once every three days, and that's a low estimate," says Cheryl Meyer, co-author of "Mothers Who Kill Their Children."

Several databases track such killings but do not separate mothers from fathers or stepfathers. At the Department of Health and Human Services, the National Child Abuse and Neglect Data System reported an estimated 1,740 child fatalities – meaning when a child dies from an injury caused by abuse or neglect – in 2008.


And according to numbers compiled from 16 states by the National Violent Death Reporting System at the CDC Injury Center, 130 children were killed in those states by a parent in 2008, the last year for which numbers were available.

"The horrific stories make the headlines, so we believe it hardly ever happens," says Meyer, a professor of psychology at Wright State University in Dayton, Ohio. "But it's not a rare thing."

Meyer and co-author Michelle Oberman interviewed women at the Ohio Reformatory for Women. They found that of 1,800 women at the prison, 80 were there for killing their children.

It's also a phenomenon that defies neat patterns: It cuts across boundaries of class, race and socio-economic status. Oberman and Meyer came up with five categories: filicide related to an ignored pregnancy; abuse-related; neglect-related; assisted or coerced filicide (such as when a partner forces the killing); and purposeful filicide with the mother acting alone.

Different as these cases are, though, there are some factors that link the poor teen mother who kills her baby in a bathroom with an older, wealthier mother, and one of them, experts say, is isolation.

"These women almost always feel alone, with a total lack of emotional support," says Lita Linzer Schwartz, a professor emeritus of psychology and women's studies at Penn State, and co-author of "Endangered Children."

Schwartz says women are often not checked for mental illness after their crimes, and that is unfortunate.

"Women need better treatment not only before, but after," she says. "They get tormented in prison, when often what they need is psychological care."

The issue of mental illness is a tricky one. Some women are obviously seriously ill – for example, Andrea Yates, who drowned her five children, one by one, in the bath in 2001, believing she was saving them from the devil. After first being convicted of capital murder, she was found innocent by reason of insanity and remains in a mental institution.

But Oberman, a law professor at Santa Clara University, says cases are not always so obvious – sometimes depression is enough to send a woman over the edge. "Almost all these women are not in their right minds (when they commit these acts)," she says. "The debate is whether they're sick enough to be called insane."

Besides isolation, another frequent similarity in the cases is a split with the father of the children. "So often there is an impending death or divorce or breakup," Meyer says.

In the case of Armstrong, the 25-year-old mother had apparently argued with the father of three of her young children – about his cheating, according to the woman's surviving son – just before driving into the river on Tuesday in Newburgh, N.Y. (Her 10-year-old son climbed out a window and survived. Three children, ages 11 months to 5 years, died.)

This was one of those cases where the mother was committing suicide and decided to take the kids with her. To rational observers, there is nothing more perverse. But in the logic of many these mothers, experts say, they are protecting their children by taking them along. Armstrong's surviving son told a woman who helped him that his mother had told the kids: "If I'm going to die, you're all going to die with me."

Experts have heard that many times before.

"We see cases where the mother thinks the child would be better off in heaven than on this miserable earth," for example with an abusive father, says Schwartz. "They think it's a good deed, a blessing."

A good deed – performed by a good mother. "It's how the sick mother sees herself being a good mother," says Oberman. "Once she decides she can't bear the pain anymore, she thinks, `what would a good mother do?'"

Korbin, the anthropologist, says in prison interviews she conducted, some women who had killed their children were still certain they were good mothers. And it's that very ideal of being a "good mother" that is holding our society back from taking preventive action or intervening in a potentially abusive situation before it's too late, Korbin says.

"Often the people around these women will minimize a troubling instance that they see, saying, `Well, she's a good mother.' We err on the side of being supportive of women as being good mothers, where we should be taking seriously any instance where a mother OR father seems to be having trouble parenting. ANY instance of child maltreatment is serious."

In fact, Armstrong's aunt told reporters that her niece "was a good mother. She was going through some stuff."

Meyer, for one, is angry that the people around Armstrong didn't take heed of the warning signs earlier.

"To me this is a textbook case," she says. "This woman was completely overwhelmed. Almost always, you can find people who say, `I knew something was wrong.' This did not come out of the blue. I say shame on the people who saw signs and didn't do anything. This is your responsibility, too."

Not that it is easy to know when and how to raise an alarm bell. "I think often people just don't know what to do," says Korbin.

But, she adds, it doesn't help to gape at a few of the more shocking cases and then move on, without recognizing the scope of the problem and the factors that link many of these cases.

"People focus on the spectacular cases – and they are spectacular," she says. "But that means another few kids will die over the next few days without much notice, and that is very sad."
 

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Discussion Starter #2



Caylee was reported missing by her mom a month after her actual disappearance.

http://news.gather.com/viewArticle.action?articleId=281474979232795

A new photograph of Casey Anthony has just been uncovered by investigators involved in the case. The photograph has been submitted as evidence as it was taken approximately two weeks after her daughter, Caylee Anthony, went missing.

A Tampa Bay, Florida news outlet released this photograph, which can be seen by following this link. The photo shows Casey Anthony, located in the far back left of the image, with a disposable drinking cup brought to her mouth. She has a wide, sloppy grin across her face and she looks inebriated, happy and carefree. This, of course, isn't much of a surprise because when the original photos of Casey Anthony partying on Facebook emerged, it was also within this time line. She has never shown a sign of sadness for her missing and now deceased toddler.







Sensitive content, not recommended for those under 18 Show Content


http://www.google.com/images?um=1&hl=en&safe=off&tbm=isch&q=casey+anthony+partying&revid=811641440&sa=X&ei=e4mqTcTjFMjv0gGC-_ScCA&ved=0CDQQ1QIoAg&biw=1024&bih=705

Sources and investigators say the photograph was taken on July 4th of 2008--not even a month after her daughter went missing. Casey Anthony claims that during this time she was conducting her own private investigation of her daughter's whereabouts, but if this image, and the many others of Casey partying, are any indication of guilt, then it is obvious that her goose is cooked. Casey Anthony looks guilty, acts guilty and doesn't show a lick of remorse or sadness for the death of little Caylee. She will be tried by a jury of her peers. Does anything more need to be said?

Casey Anthony's defense has been feverishly trying to stop evidence from being released to the jury for the trial. She's expected to begin in early May and the Florida judge is allowing all evidence. Good!"




You go, Sarah Palin.
Lets defund abortions and toss pro choice out the window.


Sooo special interests can continue to milk our govt and taxes for their overseas tax shelters.

That'll help out women who are not prepared for children.
:crazy:
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Since all of that happened while PP and abortions was funded, it is not going to make any difference when it is de-funded. I don't want any of my tax money paying so idiots like her can continue partying.
Of course.

but the problem is, like the mom that drove her minivan into the lake.....partying is not the issue.
Neither is the pre defunding events.


It's the issue that this will happen more often, as pro choice becomes pro life for millions of women get shoved into a corner.
As it is, experts believe the number of babies killed by moms
under 5 months old is triple what is known.
And low income men do their fair share.

And this viewpoint dont even include the costs that will increase to socially fund these children and moms for HC, schooling, daycare, adoption funding, college grants, and more.


The last thing I want my taxes to do, is pay for abortions, since I am a Christian Catholic.
But PP saves our county money, improves the chances of low income moms to better their lives and incomes, educations, and make better choices in the future. This in turn, raises the chances for their offspring, to do the same, without social burden.
And it don't back women into a corner to make harder choices they are not ready to make, and put children at risk.
 

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Since all of that happened while PP and abortions was funded, it is not going to make any difference when it is de-funded. I don't want any of my tax money paying so idiots like her can continue partying.
I think all weekend party expenses should be tax deductable. After all that is what the Politics of Saturday night is all about.:partyon::partyon:
 

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:crazy:
Am I the only one who thinks it's a little hard to identify any of the women in these pictures - especially the one with the chicks dancing? I'm all for photo evidence, but this is a little shaky.:D
 

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Fund an organization which only 3% of its operations are related to abortion & abortion counseling (less than $300 per instance), or pay the welfare costs for a goodly portion of these children and their more likely criminal activities for life. Choose!

Fiscal conservative my ass. This is about social engineering and passing the buck to the rest of the society for the next 18-99 years.

What. Ever.

And you think we're stupid?

:rolleyes:
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Am I the only one who thinks it's a little hard to identify any of the women in these pictures - especially the one with the chicks dancing? I'm all for photo evidence, but this is a little shaky.:D
Are you familiar with the case?

without placing conviction, she reported her daughter as missing...
....one month after her daughter was missing from her care and custody.
During that time she was partying and screwing.

when asked why she waited a month to report her own child missing, she remarked that she was busy performing her own investigation.
 

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Fund an organization which only 3% of its operations are related to abortion & abortion counseling
Really ? 3 out of every 100 are there for abortion... and the rest are not ? Go stand in front of one for a couple of hours.
 

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Really ? 3 out of every 100 are there for abortion... and the rest are not ? Go stand in front of one for a couple of hours.
Do your research. 3%. And that includes those that consult for one but don't get one.

Time for you to change Kool Aid.
 

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Do your research. 3%. And that includes those that consult for one but don't get one.

Time for you to change Kool Aid.
What research have you done, dude ? Yahoos article by way of AP ?

The numbers do not play out in any way. PP does 27% of all abortions in this country... from their own statistics. That's 1 in 4 !!! Do the math !
 

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Fund an organization which only 3% of its operations are related to abortion & abortion counseling (less than $300 per instance), or pay the welfare costs for a goodly portion of these children and their more likely criminal activities for life. Choose!

Fiscal conservative my ass. This is about social engineering and passing the buck to the rest of the society for the next 18-99 years.

What. Ever.

And you think we're stupid?

:rolleyes:
I thought you were good with numbers, T ...

From the Planned Parenthood Federation web site, it is easily determined that they performed more than 11 million 'services', of which they report that they also performed 324 thousand abortions. That's the source for the '3 percent', since 324k divided by 11,000k is approximately 3%.

Except if you look a bit deeper, you see that they actually had contact with 3 million people ...

So, at the very LEAST, more than 10% of their operations are really geared toward abortions. Since some proportion of their clients are men, then the abortion rate for Planned Parenthood clients is greater than 10%.

Using your figure of $300 as an estimate for an abortion, then the 324k abortions represents nearly $100,000,000 of income.

Total revenues from the 2008-2009 Annual report show roughly $1.1 Billion, with some $360 million from government grants.

They spent approximately $600 million for medical services, but only brought in just over $400 million for those services.

So, yes - I say that Planned Parenthood should step up their efforts to increase their donations (some 20% of income now) to make up for that loss in government money. Not a function of the federal government to fund this enterprise - certainly not directly - since they are a non-profit, then they should certainly be entitled to the same tax treatment that any other non-profit enjoys.

Steven

Sources:

http://www.plannedparenthood.org/files/PPFA/fact_ppservices_2010-09-03.pdf

http://www.plannedparenthood.org/files/PPFA/PPFA_Annual_Report_08-09-FINAL-12-10-10.pdf
 

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What research have you done, dude ? Yahoos article by way of AP ?

The numbers do not play out in any way. PP does 27% of all abortions in this country... from their own statistics. That's 1 in 4 !!! Do the math !
3% of PP's activity is abortion related. So what if they are doing 27% of the national abortions. That means someone else is doing 73% of them. Who? Who else is doing abortions? And why target an entity whose other services are 97% of their operations?

As for research, I am using the same research that John Kyl's office used to admit that he was wrong after he claimed 90%.

Serious. You guys are eating up your overlords **** like it is chocolate. You have no idea.

Here's one: Find out who is doing the other 73% of the abortions and who THEY are campaigning for and who is sending THEM federal dollars, M-kay?
 

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Aw hell. I'll just tell you. The other entities performing abortions are Big Pharma and medical mega corps who support Republican candidates and whose candidates are fighting the healthcare law that was passed last year. You see. These companies don't want the government supporting an entity that provides less than a thirds of the abortions and medical screenings that they do because this is taking away from their bottom line. SO, the Republicans are attacking PP from every nasty angle possible so their campaign supporters get more customers due to less competition.

It's all about transferring the wealth vertically and dooming those unable to afford deeper into destitution.

Get ready to be writing your welfare checks!
 

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or, heres a crazy idea....pp can just fundraise that 30% of their budget- if their "services" are so importnat (like how they claim to do breast exams/mamograms despite them saying they do not when you call them), then they should have no issues finding that 30% thru donations....

THEN, we eliminate welfare. yes, gone out the window. GET A JOB! there is no need for people to be sitting at home collecting a welfare check that is increases with every kid they have....
 

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Here's one: Find out who is doing the other 73% of the abortions and who THEY are campaigning for and who is sending THEM federal dollars, M-kay?
That would be all the other legitimate hospitals in every town, city and village... across the entire country. These legitimate hospitals typically abort for legitimate reason. This is not to say that it does not happen that a legitimate hospital does not on occasion, preform an abortion simply due to a mistake during sex... but rather as it should be... an occasional last resort. More importantly, They are not abortion factories run by leftist and feminists political lobbing groups that want be able to eat their cake and have it paid for with our tax dollars, also. If it's that important to the left... the left should fund PP. They do, after all... fund all sorts of other leftist groups and ideologies without tax payer dollars.
 

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That would be all the other legitimate hospitals in every town, city and village... across the entire country. These legitimate hospitals typically abort for legitimate reason. This is not to say that it does not happen that a legitimate hospital does not on occasion, preform an abortion simply due to a mistake during sex... but rather as it should be... an occasional last resort. More importantly, They are not abortion factories run by leftist and feminists political lobbing groups that want be able to eat their cake and have it paid for with our tax dollars, also. If it's that important to the left... the left should fund PP. They do, after all... fund all sorts of other leftist groups and ideologies without tax payer dollars.
Nope. Hospitals and non-PP clinics perform abortions no questions asked. In a lot of cases, insurance covers it. But go ahead. Keep trying to score a political point that won't barely slow the abortion rate if it makes the overlords happy.

:rolleyes:
 
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