Corvette Forum : DigitalCorvettes.com Corvette Forums banner

1 - 20 of 39 Posts

·
Banned
Joined
·
12,109 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
http://blogs.wsj.com/wealth/2010/09/16/millionaire-population-still-is-soaring/




Earlier this summer, I reported on two surveys (here and here) that showed a bounce back in the population of millionaires.


Associated Press
Mr. Monopoly, played by Merwin Goldsmith, throws out Monopoly money during a promotion for the game at Washington’s Union Station in 2003.Since then, the stock market has floundered, the economy has slumped and overseas markets have drifted sideways. And yet….America’s millionaire-manufacturing sector continues to outperform the rest of the economy.

According to a new survey from Phoenix Marketing International’s Affluent Market Practice, the number of American households with investible assets of $1 million or more rose 8% in the 12 months ended in June. The survey says there now are 5.55 million U.S. households with investible assets of $1 million or more.

That follows two years of declines and brings the millionaire count back to 2006 levels. Of course, that is still below the peak of 5.97 million in 2007 and the current growth rate is well below pre-financial crisis levels, when the millionaire population increased as much as 35% a year.

Still, the numbers offer further evidence that the wealthy may have decoupled from the rest of the economy. The study’s authors say high salary growth, rather than investments, are the main drivers of the millionaire expansion.

The very wealthy seem to have had a better year than the mere millionaires. The population of American households with $5 million or more in investible assets surged 16%. The population of those with $10 million to invest increased 17%.

Granted, the very wealthy have had a bit of a bumpier ride than the lesser millionaires when it comes to their net worth. While the net worth of millionaires declined by a total of 14% during the global financial crisis, pentamillionaires (those with $5 million plus) saw their wealth drop 23% and decamillionaires sank 25%.

The lesson: the richer the millionaire, the more resilient they have been in this downturn. But more wealth these days also brings more volatility, since large wealth is probably more dependent on financial markets than broader economic growth.

Do you think the millionaire count will continue to rise in the second half of 2009? Where will the wealth come from?

METHODOLOGY NOTE: For those asking why the Phoenix numbers are higher or lower than the Merrill or Spectrem numbers, the short answer is that all use different methodologies and measure different things. Merill/Capgemini measures individuals, not households. And they use an imputed methodology based on total wealth estimates by country and adjusting for stock index values, etc. Phoenix polls affluent investors directly for the value of their holdings and loans in about 80 different product categories, then rolls the data into various wealth measurements such as investible assets (which excludes employer-sponsored retirement, real estate, etc), net worth, total assets, total liabilities, etc. It then weights the findings by age and income within investible asset categories so it can make calculations at the national level.





Soooooo


who's suffering?:huh:
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
31,366 Posts
So, the amount of wealthy people, was decliing under Bush, and his infamous "taxcuts for the rich" and they are now growing (since 2006) under Obama and the Dimocrats?

Damn, I bet you wish you didn't post this... party of the people my ass.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,409 Posts
Nothing wrong with building wealth. We do not have a fixed "wealth pie" whereas you need to take away from someone else in order to personally gain.

Watch these numbers over the next 2-3 years as I think they will get even larger. The wealthy are investing now and many are buying up and developing the glut of foreclosed properties. They don't follow the heard, they lead it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
25,253 Posts
I feel sorry for people who think their only happiness can come from the downfall of others. In 1917, a movement swept Russia that was based on jealousy and hate of the owner class, and it ended in the revolution that ultimately killed over 20 million people. Every country that does not have a wealthy class of people has a population mired in equal poverty of both riches and spirit. Why would it make you so happy to see the rich fall? Why not put your time and energy into enjoying your own life with what you have or work to improve it? The rich do not have to become poor for you to be happy.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
31,366 Posts
I feel sorry for people who think their only happiness can come from the downfall of others. In 1917, a movement swept Russia that was based on jealousy and hate of the owner class, and it ended in the revolution that ultimately killed over 20 million people.
You do know who funded that movement, right?
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
12,109 Posts
Discussion Starter #9
I feel sorry for people who think their only happiness can come from the downfall of others. In 1917, a movement swept Russia that was based on jealousy and hate of the owner class, and it ended in the revolution that ultimately killed over 20 million people. Every country that does not have a wealthy class of people has a population mired in equal poverty of both riches and spirit. Why would it make you so happy to see the rich fall? Why not put your time and energy into enjoying your own life with what you have or work to improve it? The rich do not have to become poor for you to be happy.
In old England, when only the wealthy could vote, the economy was stagnant and destitute.

Call it progressivism if ya want, but untill the poor and people without property or capital goods were allowed to vote, that's how their economy stayed.





I am not attacking the wealthy here.
I am saying:

A: Wealthy do not need Bush's tax cuts to flourish
B: The wealthy flourished very well during Clinton taxes
C: The fear n smear for tax cuts are unwarranted


I myself would not let bush tax cuts expire....THIS YEAR.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
25,253 Posts
A: Wealthy do not need Bush's tax cuts to flourish
How do you know? A self employed person making $251k probably pays about $60k in federal taxes. He pays another $15k in self-employment tax, and likely pays another 25k in state and local taxes. That leaves him with $151k to live on, but he has to fund a retirement plan with 10-20% of that, because the feds will have no money to support him in retirement. So he makes $251k/yr, is evil and rich, and after taking care of government and a little planning for the future, he has $120k left over. Yes, that's plenty to get by on. But why should government increase the amount they take when the average self-employed person only gets to keep roughly half of what he makes? Enough is enough.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,858 Posts
So, the amount of wealthy people, was decliing under Bush, and his infamous "taxcuts for the rich" and they are now growing (since 2006) under Obama and the Dimocrats?

Damn, I bet you wish you didn't post this... party of the people my ass.
Why do you think they are fighting so much to keep the Tax Cut? Because they know who is really paying for it? And to top it off … they have stupid asses who have never made more than $250k, and who will never make more than $250k bending over and taking it for them. :rolleyes:

Once again, these people wouldn't piss on you if you were on fire. :lookinup:
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
31,366 Posts
Why do you think they are fighting so much to keep the Tax Cut? Because they know who is really paying for it? And to top it off … they have stupid asses who have never made more than $250k, and who will never make more than $250k bending over and taking it for them. :rolleyes:

Once again, these people wouldn't piss on you if you were on fire. :lookinup:
Trust me sweetheart, I know that better than you ever will.

Income taxes shouldn't even be allowed for anyone making less than $5 million, and then it should be a rate of about 25% across the board. Coupled with a balanced budget amendment, and a repeal of all the "tax credit" (redistribution payments).

My idea about things would be considered more radical than Obama..

I think the UN should get the boot, and we should quit redistributing our wealth to them.

I think the US should make full use of all of our natural resources, instead of redistributing that wealth to our enemies.

I think we should have a single payer healthcare system and health insurance should be outlawed.

I think the Federal Reserve Act should be repealed, and our monetary system returned to the gold standard.

I think we should have term limits on congress, and no benefits package unless they are elected to the maximum number of terms. I think their pay package should be controlled by a non-partisan/non-government entity.

I think bailouts should be made illegal and the government should not be involved in banking period, other than their regulatory capacity.

I think there should not be a penny of our wealth leave this country under false pretenses (foreign aid) until we have 0 Americans living at or below the poverty line.

I think our borders should be sealed and controlled, with severe penalties for coming here illegally. I also recognize the fact that we cannot deport 10 million people, so some form of amnesty must be implemented, for the ones who are here. I think that anyone here illegally should not get citizenship for their children.

Radical, I know..
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
12,109 Posts
Discussion Starter #13
Trust me sweetheart, I know that better than you ever will.

Income taxes shouldn't even be allowed for anyone making less than $5 million, and then it should be a rate of about 25% across the board. Coupled with a balanced budget amendment, and a repeal of all the "tax credit" (redistribution payments).

My idea about things would be considered more radical than Obama..

I think the UN should get the boot, and we should quit redistributing our wealth to them.

I think the US should make full use of all of our natural resources, instead of redistributing that wealth to our enemies.

I think we should have a single payer healthcare system and health insurance should be outlawed.

I think the Federal Reserve Act should be repealed, and our monetary system returned to the gold standard.

I think we should have term limits on congress, and no benefits package unless they are elected to the maximum number of terms. I think their pay package should be controlled by a non-partisan/non-government entity.

I think bailouts should be made illegal and the government should not be involved in banking period, other than their regulatory capacity.

I think there should not be a penny of our wealth leave this country under false pretenses (foreign aid) until we have 0 Americans living at or below the poverty line.

I think our borders should be sealed and controlled, with severe penalties for coming here illegally. I also recognize the fact that we cannot deport 10 million people, so some form of amnesty must be implemented, for the ones who are here. I think that anyone here illegally should not get citizenship for their children.

Radical, I know..
Good stuff...


But none of it will happen with banks and the IMF running our country instead of the people.

The Tea Party will not stop this, the Libertarians will not, and the dems or pubs will not.

We may get some some and mirrors.......but that's about it.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
12,109 Posts
Discussion Starter #14
How do you know? A self employed person making $251k probably pays about $60k in federal taxes. He pays another $15k in self-employment tax, and likely pays another 25k in state and local taxes. That leaves him with $151k to live on, but he has to fund a retirement plan with 10-20% of that, because the feds will have no money to support him in retirement. So he makes $251k/yr, is evil and rich, and after taking care of government and a little planning for the future, he has $120k left over. Yes, that's plenty to get by on. But why should government increase the amount they take when the average self-employed person only gets to keep roughly half of what he makes? Enough is enough.



Every multi millionare breeds offspring that needs their own millions to hoard and sack away......to feed off others that work hard jsut to keep a roof over their head and feed families.
That reduces the overall pie available...constantly.
As it shrinks the available floating fund equity for the middle class keeps shrinking.

The only result possible is increasing economic gap.


In a contracting economy.........the rate of economic gap is increased....



This is our future....
This is what corps, banks and investors create, in exchange for greed for money they will never spend.
Harvest thy neighbor.




 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,409 Posts
Trust me sweetheart, I know that better than you ever will.

Income taxes shouldn't even be allowed for anyone making less than $5 million, and then it should be a rate of about 25% across the board. Coupled with a balanced budget amendment, and a repeal of all the "tax credit" (redistribution payments).

My idea about things would be considered more radical than Obama..

I think the UN should get the boot, and we should quit redistributing our wealth to them.

I think the US should make full use of all of our natural resources, instead of redistributing that wealth to our enemies.

I think we should have a single payer healthcare system and health insurance should be outlawed.

I think the Federal Reserve Act should be repealed, and our monetary system returned to the gold standard.

I think we should have term limits on congress, and no benefits package unless they are elected to the maximum number of terms. I think their pay package should be controlled by a non-partisan/non-government entity.

I think bailouts should be made illegal and the government should not be involved in banking period, other than their regulatory capacity.

I think there should not be a penny of our wealth leave this country under false pretenses (foreign aid) until we have 0 Americans living at or below the poverty line.

I think our borders should be sealed and controlled, with severe penalties for coming here illegally. I also recognize the fact that we cannot deport 10 million people, so some form of amnesty must be implemented, for the ones who are here. I think that anyone here illegally should not get citizenship for their children.

Radical, I know..
Not at all radical. Capitalism isn't based on a fixed pie of resources and wealth. Individual wealth is often the result of the creation of new services and or markets. Just because someone gets wealthier, doesn't mean someone has to get poorer. The fact that the media announced this week that the gap between the wealthiest Americans and the poorest Americans is not a result of the wealthy taking away from the poor. The economy moves in cycles and the wealthy for years have viewed recessions as a great time to purchase assets. That is why they are wealthy.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,146 Posts
Every multi millionare breeds offspring that needs their own millions to hoard and sack away......to feed off others that work hard jsut to keep a roof over their head and feed families.
That reduces the overall pie available...constantly.
As it shrinks the available floating fund equity for the middle class keeps shrinking.

The only result possible is increasing economic gap.


In a contracting economy.........the rate of economic gap is increased....



This is our future....
This is what corps, banks and investors create, in exchange for greed for money they will never spend.
Harvest thy neighbor.




I have a question Dune, what percentage of millionares in this country do you beleive are second genreation, third gernation, or more?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
25,253 Posts
Every multi millionare breeds offspring that needs their own millions to hoard and sack away......to feed off others that work hard jsut to keep a roof over their head and feed families.
That reduces the overall pie available...constantly.
As it shrinks the available floating fund equity for the middle class keeps shrinking.
That would all be very interesting if there was any truth to it. Wealth is not a zero sum game. Wealth can and is created from nothing. Those people don't get rich feeding off of others. They get rich selling things to others that they want. Why is that a bad thing? This system makes millions of goods and services available to people who would never be able to get them otherwise. Do you want to grow all of your own food? Make all of your own clothes? Do you like Cars, TV's, iPods, airplanes, baseball games, etc. etc.? Are the people who sell those things "feeding off the poor"? Get a grip on your negative view of normal trade as most cultures in the world perform it. Yes, there are winners. Yes there are losers. But in 99% of the cases, the losers aren't that way because of winners. They are that way because life doesn't distribute success evenly. That's no sin, that's just life.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,409 Posts
That would all be very interesting if there was any truth to it. Wealth is not a zero sum game. Wealth can and is created from nothing. Those people don't get rich feeding off of others. They get rich selling things to others that they want. Why is that a bad thing? This system makes millions of goods and services available to people who would never be able to get them otherwise. Do you want to grow all of your own food? Make all of your own clothes? Do you like Cars, TV's, iPods, airplanes, baseball games, etc. etc.? Are the people who sell those things "feeding off the poor"? Get a grip on your negative view of normal trade as most cultures in the world perform it. Yes, there are winners. Yes there are losers. But in 99% of the cases, the losers aren't that way because of winners. They are that way because life doesn't distribute success evenly. That's no sin, that's just life.
Well said! Poverty does not improve the human condition, however wealth and abudance does. We don't need to redistribute the wealth, we simply need to continue to work towards developing new opportunities.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
12,109 Posts
Discussion Starter #19
That would all be very interesting if there was any truth to it. Wealth is not a zero sum game. Wealth can and is created from nothing. Those people don't get rich feeding off of others. They get rich selling things to others that they want. Why is that a bad thing? This system makes millions of goods and services available to people who would never be able to get them otherwise. Do you want to grow all of your own food? Make all of your own clothes? Do you like Cars, TV's, iPods, airplanes, baseball games, etc. etc.? Are the people who sell those things "feeding off the poor"? Get a grip on your negative view of normal trade as most cultures in the world perform it. Yes, there are winners. Yes there are losers. But in 99% of the cases, the losers aren't that way because of winners. They are that way because life doesn't distribute success evenly. That's no sin, that's just life.


your not getting it.


When you play Monoploy, the game ends when one player takes up all the equity in the game.
That's all fine and dandy in games, but also as evident in the game, as a closed lop or society, the society fails because all the equity is horded by the leader/winner.
The game can run forever if the leader spends money to put back into the finite pie or loop. That's trade and commerce.

But that's not what's happening in America.
The wealthy sock away their earnings and take from the loop.
Their offspring do the same.
It accellerates the failure or the finite pie or loop.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
25,253 Posts
your not getting it.


When you play Monoploy, the game ends when one player takes up all the equity in the game.
That's all fine and dandy in games, but also as evident in the game, as a closed lop or society, the society fails because all the equity is horded by the leader/winner.
The game can run forever if the leader spends money to put back into the finite pie or loop. That's trade and commerce.

But that's not what's happening in America.
The wealthy sock away their earnings and take from the loop.
Their offspring do the same.
It accellerates the failure or the finite pie or loop.
It simply doesn't work that way. The amount of capital in the country and world is constantly increasing. The wealthy have a much better chance of latching on to some of that growing capital than poor people do. But it doesn't take away from poor people for the wealthy get more and more of the growing capital pool. And in reality, the chances over time are good that the poor and middle class will pick up on some the spare capital and have better lives too. How many Americans live at the same level as their grandparents at the same age? Not many. In spite of headlines, the rising tide has lifted the boat for 99% of Americans over the last 75 years. We are in a recession, so the tide isn't rising too much right now. But the system we have in place is the one most likely to make that happen again.
 
1 - 20 of 39 Posts
Top