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Discussion Starter #1
Well put from start to finish.


The opposition to military action in Libya is fascinating. President Obama is taking incoming fire from both the left and the right as various agendas collide against neutralizing Moammar Gadhafi. The dissent is all over the place, so let's try to simplify the situation.

We begin with a quote from Edmund Burke: "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing."

That's true. We have seen it time and again throughout history. When evil is not confronted, it can win, often with devastating results.

There is no question that Gadhafi was on the verge of slaughtering his opposition. His mercenaries and highly paid military were closing in on rebel strongholds, and amnesty would not be forthcoming, as the colonel himself publicly proclaimed.

Finally, the U.N. acted, and a no-fly zone was approved. After waffling for weeks, Obama swung into action, ordering U.S. planes and missiles into the skies. Then he went to Brazil.

Immediately, the far left erupted. Ralph Nader is calling for impeachment. Michael Moore has suggested that Obama give back the Nobel Peace Prize. Congressman Dennis Kucinich wants to cut off funding for any military action against Libya.

On the right, Pat Buchanan banged the isolationist drum: "Why is the United States, all the way across the ocean, got to go in and stop Arabs from killing Arabs? ... Why are we in there?"

To prevent a massacre? I believe that's the reason, Mr. Buchanan.

Congressman Ron Paul was equally blunt: "What are we doing? We are in this crisis, and they decide to spend all this money. It makes no sense at all."

Here's my question for Paul: Would you be comfortable, congressman, watching thousands of human beings being slaughtered by a terrorist dictator when you know that your country had the power to prevent it?

In fact, the no-fly zone was up and running in hours, and Gadhafi's forces have been seriously damaged. Now the rebels have a chance to eventually overthrow the dictator, and mass murder has been avoided at least for the time being.

This is not a complicated issue. If America is indeed a noble country, it should act to save lives when it can. That doesn't mean getting bogged down in quagmires like Iraq, Afghanistan and Vietnam. But when quick, decisive action can defeat evil, it should be taken.

I believe in the basic nobility of America. I also believe few other nations have the motivation and power to confront evil that this country does. If it's all about us, if all we think about is our own sacrifice, then American exceptionalism disappears.

We did the right thing in Libya.

http://townhall.com/columnists/billoreilly/2011/03/26/the_triumph_of_evil
 

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I still don't get this "no fly zone" thingy. A few weeks before the UN wanted it the Arab league said they wanted it too. Egypt has 240 F-16's, 60 Mirage's and a slew of older planes. Saudi Arabia has 300 F-15's, 90 Tornado's and another slew of other aircraft. That's just two countries. There are a whole gaggle of countries in the Arab League. If THEY wanted a no fly zone why didn't THEY initiate one? I'm quite certain they have more money than we do and they have more planes in the area than us.

Why does it seem to me that they took the safe way out just in case Gadaffi wins. Is that so he won't be mad at them. It's a civil war folks..........people will die. We can't stop every dictator on Earth from killing people. We don't have the resources or the money. This is an Arabic problem. Let them handle it, it's their back yard.

Who's going to start a new government? These guys are just like a bunch of rioters in Los Angeles. Are we going to pick the baddest one, the riot leader, to negotiate with? What in the hell makes anyone think that these rebels will have any knowledge about a government and how to care for their people?

Saddam was good for Iraq because he spoke the only language that they understand. Gadaffi speaks the same language and that's the language that they've understood for over a thousand years. We've only been around a couple of hundred years with our do-gooder attitude and we are completely broke. I don't see a chance that we'll make it to our 1000th birthday. We've completely squandered our fortunes and the wealth of this nation in a little over 200 years. In a thousand years we'll be standing in line throwing rocks at each other for the chance to pick kernels of undigested corn from smoldering piles of chicken ****.

It's time we woke up and paid attention to ourselves for a while and to hell with the rest of them.

Of course that is, as always, IMHO.
 

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I still don't get this "no fly zone" thingy. A few weeks before the UN wanted it the Arab league said they wanted it too. Egypt has 240 F-16's, 60 Mirage's and a slew of older planes. Saudi Arabia has 300 F-15's, 90 Tornado's and another slew of other aircraft. That's just two countries. There are a whole gaggle of countries in the Arab League. If THEY wanted a no fly zone why didn't THEY initiate one? I'm quite certain they have more money than we do and they have more planes in the area than us.

Why does it seem to me that they took the safe way out just in case Gadaffi wins. Is that so he won't be mad at them. It's a civil war folks..........people will die. We can't stop every dictator on Earth from killing people. We don't have the resources or the money. This is an Arabic problem. Let them handle it, it's their back yard.

Who's going to start a new government? These guys are just like a bunch of rioters in Los Angeles. Are we going to pick the baddest one, the riot leader, to negotiate with? What in the hell makes anyone think that these rebels will have any knowledge about a government and how to care for their people?

Saddam was good for Iraq because he spoke the only language that they understand. Gadaffi speaks the same language and that's the language that they've understood for over a thousand years. We've only been around a couple of hundred years with our do-gooder attitude and we are completely broke. I don't see a chance that we'll make it to our 1000th birthday. We've completely squandered our fortunes and the wealth of this nation in a little over 200 years. In a thousand years we'll be standing in line throwing rocks at each other for the chance to pick kernels of undigested corn from smoldering piles of chicken ****.

It's time we woke up and paid attention to ourselves for a while and to hell with the rest of them.

Of course that is, as always, IMHO.
Well Kentucky, you fuggin nailed it.

:cheers:
 

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Discussion Starter #6
:laughing: Funny seeing you 2, side with Obama, as he sides with Al Qeda. :lookinup:
Where you getting that from ? It is the antithesis of Obamas reasoning for intervention. He waited for permission... rather then being a leader. That's O'Reilly's entire point. It is this country's greatness and advancement over all others, ever, that allowed for our intervention. Obama lack leadership qualities.
 

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Where you getting that from ? It is the antithesis of Obamas reasoning for intervention. He waited for permission... rather then being a leader. That's O'Reilly's entire point. It is this country's greatness and advancement over all others, ever, that allowed for our intervention. Obama lack leadership qualities.
Oh horseshit, he did what he was expected to do, go to the UN & the Arab league and get permission, **** the US congress...

You used to be against this kind of crap, what happened? :huh:
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Our Constitution requires that he does. It does not state that we require permission to do so, from a league of nations. This is an incite to his view of this nations greatness in the world. Obama lacks leadership.
 

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When you have all your resource's and focus other place's in the world

That's means your not Focusing on America

yah know what

F**************k everyone of those people in Libya

Libya & Libyans " HATE AMERICANS !

So why would I want to help them

They have BIG problems Because they are FK'D up People

PERIOD !

I'm Pro America and Skrew everyone else in the World

yah know what F********k France too !:nuts:

It's not my job to be protect the world, that's exactly why this country is in such a mess

Because our government is focused everywhere But HERE !:nuts:

What a bunch of BAFOOoooonzzzz we have in government

We accomplished Nothing in Libya for America
 

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Discussion Starter #10
I disagree. The instance of our greatness lays in our generosity. The willingness to combat evil... when no other society is willing or able. Our moral obligation. There has never been a greater civilization in the history of man kind. The reason for our greatness dictates our willingness and obligation to combat evil. Our reason for greatness, if diminished, has dire consequences.
 

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:laughing: Oh boy.. time for the disclaimers:

I disagree. The instance of our greatness lays in our generosity (as long as it don't include gays, poor people in the US) . The willingness to combat evil... when no other society is willing or able (As long as the evil is in an oil country). Our moral obligation. There has never been a greater civilization in the history of man kind (And never one that attacked more nations in a 100 year period while calling everyone else terrorists). The reason for our greatness dictates our willingness and obligation to combat evil (And of course, make a profit off their resources). Our reason for greatness, if diminished, has dire consequences (I think this is the part where Nero is playing the fiddle).
:huh:
 

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Sorry Preach, can't let you get away with that hog wallow.

The instance of our greatness lays in our generosity.
Should have said the "instant" of our greatness. Screw the generosity. If I have no money in my pocket I can't put a quarter in the cup of the blind veteran. Compared to civilizations that have prospered for 3000-4000 years our 235 years is just a snapshot in history. When it's all said and done we'll be a very small slice on the pie chart of history. We'll be ridiculed as the greatest that never was. Our legacy will be aggression, squandering of wealth and a failed democracy.

when no other society is willing or able.
They're certainly able but they are unwilling because they know the Arabic peoples much better than we do. They're fighting now, they fought yesterday and they'll still be fighting tomorrow. It's what they do.

There has never been a greater civilization in the history of man kind
History goes back a lot of years. Hell, I don't think our government old enough to make a big dent in the history books.

dictates our willingness and obligation to combat evil.
Sounds like 1952 when I heard on the TV, Up in the sky......It's a bird....it's a plane. Fighting for truth, justice and the American way. Who's to say that the "American way" is the correct way for everyone on the planet. It doesn't seem to be working for us so what would make them think that it would work for them?

if diminished, has dire consequences.
What can be more dire than the situation that we are in right now. We're broke and living under the illusion of democracy. We the people elect representatives to do our bidding in Washington and as soon as they get there they take the PAC money and do what they want. Oh, we can raise Cain during the elections and stamp our feet like a mad little girl but in the end there's not been much changed. Why else do you think someone would spend their fortune to get elected and then never get that money back through their payroll. They didn't get rich by squandering their fortune.

....................and I'm an optimist:D and that's just IMHO.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Again, I disagree on every point you guys are making.

My views of -and pride in this nation, come from a foreigners prospective. We moved to this nation because of it's greatness. That is what draws people from all over the planet here, more then any other nation. It's a damn shame when it's natural born citizens lack the pride that foreigners have for this nations greatness. It's a shame that you don't see what we see in her.
 

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Again, I disagree on every point you guys are making.

My views of -and pride in this nation, come from a foreigners prospective. We moved to this nation because of it's greatness. That is what draws people from all over the planet here, more then any other nation. It's a damn shame when it's natural born citizens lack the pride that foreigners have for this nations greatness. It's a shame that you don't see what we see in her.
I bet your view point would change a whole lot

Once Uncle Sam puts an M-16 in your hands and ships you off to Libya

Keep it real Bro

Or just keep it to yourself

You have no idea what your talking about
 

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Well Preach, you're right. My parents came to this country in 1945 because of it's greatness. I have fought for this country, lost a best friend and a brother because my government asked me to and I do feel that we are a great nation. I've earned the right to criticize what I feel is improper treatment of other people and their culture. I have the right to disagree with you and the government. I have the ability to feel pride and disappointment in the way that MY country is being run. All I'm saying is that IMHO we are not as great as we once were.

Another difference in our points of view are the fact that you're from California and I'm from Appalachia. You are on the left coast and I'm somewhat of a rebel heart. We see things differently. I go on vacation and I have no need to lock my doors. My neighbors will get personally involved. It's what we do. It's not your fault that you grew up in a land where logic and reasoning have no place.;)

We tried to stay neutral in WW2 and we were until the Pearl Harbor thing. Currently, it appears to me that we are the first to act against any perceived injustice and I'm just sayin' that in most cases, it's none of our business. Arabs know more about how to treat Arabs than some rich guy in Congress.
 

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I still don't get this "no fly zone" thingy. A few weeks before the UN wanted it the Arab league said they wanted it too. Egypt has 240 F-16's, 60 Mirage's and a slew of older planes. Saudi Arabia has 300 F-15's, 90 Tornado's and another slew of other aircraft. That's just two countries. There are a whole gaggle of countries in the Arab League. If THEY wanted a no fly zone why didn't THEY initiate one? I'm quite certain they have more money than we do and they have more planes in the area than us.

Why does it seem to me that they took the safe way out just in case Gadaffi wins. Is that so he won't be mad at them. It's a civil war folks..........people will die. We can't stop every dictator on Earth from killing people. We don't have the resources or the money. This is an Arabic problem. Let them handle it, it's their back yard.

Who's going to start a new government? These guys are just like a bunch of rioters in Los Angeles. Are we going to pick the baddest one, the riot leader, to negotiate with? What in the hell makes anyone think that these rebels will have any knowledge about a government and how to care for their people?

Saddam was good for Iraq because he spoke the only language that they understand. Gadaffi speaks the same language and that's the language that they've understood for over a thousand years. We've only been around a couple of hundred years with our do-gooder attitude and we are completely broke. I don't see a chance that we'll make it to our 1000th birthday. We've completely squandered our fortunes and the wealth of this nation in a little over 200 years. In a thousand years we'll be standing in line throwing rocks at each other for the chance to pick kernels of undigested corn from smoldering piles of chicken ****.

It's time we woke up and paid attention to ourselves for a while and to hell with the rest of them.

Of course that is, as always, IMHO.
:partyon:
 

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I think he's canadian immigrant with albainian immigrant roots....
LOL, that t'would splain it all.:thumbsup:
 

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Discussion Starter #19
First and foremost, I'm all American. Moved here from Canada and I'm of Slovenian heritage.

I'm sure you were joking... but just in case -What does this explain ?
 

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Well, at least "I" was joking. Since mom came over here in 1945 from Plzen, Czechoslovakia and you're a Slovak, I reckon we have one thing in common. ;)Now just tell me that your favorite beer is Pilsner Urquell and we're good.:thumbsup:
 
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