Corvette Forum : DigitalCorvettes.com Corvette Forums banner
1 - 18 of 18 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
25,253 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
They are nowhere near "zero-pollution". It's about time someone worked out their true carbon footprint.


It is time to stop our green worship of the electric car. It costs us a fortune, cuts little CO2 and surprisingly kills almost twice the number of people compared with regular gasoline cars.

Electric cars' global-warming benefits are small. It is advertised as a zero-emissions car, but in reality it only shifts emissions to electricity production, with most coming from fossil fuels. As green venture capitalist Vinod Khosla likes to point out, "Electric cars are coal-powered cars."

The most popular electric car, a Nissan Leaf, over a 90,000-mile lifetime will emit 31 metric tons of CO2, based on emissions from its production, its electricity consumption at average U.S. fuel mix and its ultimate scrapping. A comparable diesel Mercedes CDI A160 over a similar lifetime will emit 3 tons more across its production, diesel consumption and ultimate scrapping.

The results are similar for the top-line Tesla car, emitting about 44 tons, about 5 tons less than a similar Audi A7 Quattro.

Subsidies vs. savings

Yes, in both cases the electric car is better, but only by a tiny bit. Avoiding 3 tons of CO2 would cost less than $27 on Europe's emissions trading market. The annual benefit is about the cost of a cup of coffee. Yet U.S. taxpayers spend up to $7,500 in tax breaks for less than $27 of climate benefits. That's a bad deal.

The other main benefit from electric cars was supposed to be lower air pollution. Yes, it might be powered by coal, but unlike the regular car, coal emissions are far away from the city centers where more people live and where damage from air pollution hits hardest.

However, new research in Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences found that while gasoline cars pollute closer to home, coal-fired power pollutes a lot more.

The researchers estimate that if the U.S. has 10% more gasoline cars in 2020, 870 more people will die each year in the U.S. from air pollution. Hybrids, because they are cleaner, will kill just 610 people. But 10% more electric vehicles powered on the average U.S. electricity mix will kill 1,617 more people every year, mostly from coal pollution. The electric car kills almost three times as many as a hybrid.

Of course, electric car proponents would venture that the perceived rapid ramp-up of renewables will make future electric cars much cleaner. This, however, is mostly wishful thinking. Today, the U.S. gets 14% of its electric power from renewables. In 25 years, Obama's Energy Information Administration estimates this will have gone up just 3 percentage points to 17%.

Similarly, fossil fuels generate 65% of U.S. electricity today, and will generate 64% in 2040, although natural gas will gain four percentage points and lead to slightly cleaner power.

Instead of focusing on electric cars, we should focus on making coal-fired power cleaner.

What proponents say

Proponents could also argue that the more mileage an electric car logs, the more its carbon footprint is reduced because the battery production is a significant part of their total emissions.

Yet, it hardly matters. The added mileage saves little in the way of emissions, and the electric car's extended use might mean it would have to replace its batteries, entirely blowing the climate benefit.

Moreover, because the Nissan gives you only 84 miles on a charge, most people buy it as a second car for shorter trips. If such a second car goes only 50,000 miles, it will actually end up emitting more CO2.

In the public conversation, electric cars are seen as the new uber-green. But they're nothing of the sort. If we had 25 million extra electric cars rather than gasoline cars on the road in 2020, they would over their lifetime avoid 75 million tons of CO2 at a market value of more than half a billion dollars.

However, at present-day subsidies, they would cost a phenomenal $188 billion while creating more pollution than gasoline cars, costing about $35 billion in lives cut short by poor air quality. For every dollar of cost, the electric car does less than half a cent of good.

For the next decades, hybrids are the way to go, while we innovate cheaper green energy that hopefully over some decades will make the electric car worthwhile.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,656 Posts
i have had this exact same argument with countless morons as i pull my 454 vette into a parking lot and get accosted by tree huggers....

i also ask them if theyve ever tried disposing of 1 car battery much less 45 or so at the same time.....all that LEAD and ACID.....

now, lets talk about that "E-10" bullsh*t they have forced on us...
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
14 Posts
This is useful information. I was thinking about buying an electric car but then I wanted to buy a powerful crossover. Now I have almost saved up money and I am thinking about choosing a model. Of course I like the Corvette, but I live out of town and I could use a crossover like Mahindra. From the manufacturer in bolero price list contains many complete sets. What do you recommend?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,516 Posts
FF 1:30

https://youtu.be/5fm8544qTWU

Its not an 1 or the other decision, I say if you truely want to be energy independent throw everything ya got at it, Ethanol,gas,lpg,electric, solar... but they dont really want to be energy independent
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
12,410 Posts
But, but, Hillary was going to put all those coal miners out of business... :lookinup:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
75 Posts
clean coal, why add fiction , do you lack honest facts?

My father had a crisis for his age, WW2. It took a unified multi nation effort and it wasn't easy.

The crisis for our age is the damage to the climate. The many scientific climate predictions are now coming true.

The folks who would fight progress only make it easier to go backwards.

If someone today rejects climate science , they have made a decision to be willfully ignorant on the damage to the climate. I am not going to yammer back and forth here with someone who makes decisions to be ignorant.

I just wanted to add a voice from a man who loves the outdoors, and knows enough to respect the mechanisms that supply the only air , food, and water that I will ever have.

I already have my state burning like never before, and destroying another summer for three states with the smoke.

I would have to be a real prick to just keep on with what caused that situation. It's worldwide, and nature always bats last.

Electric cars are interchangeable in function with gasoline cars, it is only a matter of convenience for most people which to buy.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
274 Posts
The folks who would fight progress only make it easier to go backwards.
Did you see that on a bumper sticker? The reason for the size and intensity of the fires is due to the mismanagement of our forests by government officials with the same "end of world" complex you hold. The fires had nothing -nothing to do with global warming and everything to do with eco-zealots blocking clear cutting and wildfire suppression practices used for centuries to control wildfires.

The only people that are taking us backward, are the people that still bitterly cling to the notion that it's a sign of the end of the world because of forest fires and hurricanes. Neither being able to be taxed out existence.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,058 Posts
I'd like to see CA government stop its idiotic knee jerk reactive practices and quit appeasing the illegals with motor voter, drivers licenses,etc. Just follow you oath of office and CA would be just fine.

On the global warming side I believe less government intervention is better - things are being mandated that are just unachievable so companies are seeking ways around (Vokswagon). Government involvement shouldn't be mandates but rewards for example set a goal for power generation pollution limits and the first company that can achieve normalization of those limits through coal, gas, or oil generation gets gets a serious monetary reward and longer rights to the patent US & International then update generating facilities with that technology with the help fed funding. I'd rather see my tax dollars get spent on infrastructure & utilities than frisbee aerodynamics - you know what I mean...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
12,410 Posts
My father had a crisis for his age, WW2. It took a unified multi nation effort and it wasn't easy.

The crisis for our age is the damage to the climate. The many scientific climate predictions are now coming true.
The crisis for our age is the political indoctrination of an entire generation of impressionable age voters by multinational megacorps controlling information, media, and education to steer their will towards cultist obedience to doctrines constructed to make those same corps more powerful than any country or government.
The folks who would fight progress only make it easier to go backwards.

If someone today rejects climate science , they have made a decision to be willfully ignorant on the damage to the climate. I am not going to yammer back and forth here with someone who makes decisions to be ignorant.
I don't reject climate science, but question the motives behind the hard sell steering the ultimate motives. That's not a decision to be ignorant, it's a decision to be informed.
I just wanted to add a voice from a man who loves the outdoors, and knows enough to respect the mechanisms that supply the only air , food, and water that I will ever have.
I can appreciate that. However, I almost always read that line, in assorted flavors, and see the purveyors of that thoughtset tearing through those same 'outdoors' in their new Jeep or other 4wd outdoors vehicle, ripping up the pristine landscape, ripping up a pristine stream, running over countless fauna and flora, to ultimately end up at their 'destination'...a pristine vista they take in with eys closed at it's beauty and fragrance...for a few hours, then get back into their 4wd all terrain destroyer for another forest apocalypse trip back to 'civilization'.
I already have my state burning like never before, and destroying another summer for three states with the smoke.
If you looked into the mechanics of why those fires are burning, it's just like a car... you need air, spark, and fuel. The tree huggers have introduced so much excessive legislation to keep the forestry services for managing the fuel (the dead and decaying trees laying in the millions of tons rotting on the forest floor as fuel) that it will only get worse before it gets better (i.e. all the tress are burned to the ground,a long with the residents of the area. My proof is, how come it doesn't happen that way in other parts of the country, where there is just as much 'climate change' as in CA. and with forests just as thick or even more so?
I would have to be a real prick to just keep on with what caused that situation. It's worldwide, and nature always bats last.
I'd like to see some numbers on that...
Electric cars are interchangeable in function with gasoline cars, it is only a matter of convenience for most people which to buy.
I don't care what most people buy, or do. I just have an issue with people that look down their nose at me for my decisions while being convinced their 'thinking' is more noble than mine by promoting themselves through self-aggrandizement.
 
  • Like
Reactions: MR BRNS C6

·
Registered
Joined
·
6 Posts
The Tesla Model X is absolutely fantastic. The car itself is incredibly well built, it has the best of the best latest technology, many years ahead of any other manufacturer’s vehicle. Take one example: Over the air updates. You get a refreshed, renewed car every few months. I love this car!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2 Posts
The Tesla Model X is absolutely fantastic. The car itself is incredibly well built, it has the best of the best latest technology, many years ahead of any other manufacturer’s vehicle. Take one example: Over the air updates. You get a refreshed, renewed car every few months. I love this car!
It’s an incredible machine! Easy access to the middle and rear seating via the Falcon Wing doors. Exceptional handling and acceleration just like the Model S. Great range and traction control. Fabulous all-around car. I like it even more than my beloved corvette.
 
1 - 18 of 18 Posts
Top