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Discussion Starter #1
This is Mat Taibbi's article written in Rolling Stone. It is sad that we have to find these articles here now instead of the front page of the NY TImes or the the Washington Post.

It is a long article but read it...it will show you why we are all getting ****ed by the government and wall street at the same time.


http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/why-isnt-wall-street-in-jail-20110216


If this doesn't piss you off nothing will.
 

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I had already seen the article. It's good points (and there are many) are lost in the angry anti-corporate outrage. Here's what I take away from the article. The government isn't very good at anything it does. And yet the left wants to empower them to tell us how to do virtually everything in our lives - even how to flush! The government is loaded with incompetent fools. Why do we constantly turn to them to do the wise thing?
 

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Discussion Starter #3
I had already seen the article. It's good points (and there are many) are lost in the angry anti-corporate outrage. Here's what I take away from the article. The government isn't very good at anything it does. And yet the left wants to empower them to tell us how to do virtually everything in our lives - even how to flush! The government is loaded with incompetent fools. Why do we constantly turn to them to do the wise thing?
Are you saying that we should now privatize law enforcement??? The government belongs to us. We should simply demand that they do thier job or fire them. The only way this will ever happen is when we stop letting ourselves be distracted by the political game. It is a game designed to distract us from the real problems by talkking about bullshit like gays in the army and health care.

If you lost the points in any anti-corporate outrage, I fear that you can not look past your political views to see truth.
 

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If you lost the points in any anti-corporate outrage, I fear that you can not look past your political views to see truth.
I think it is a very good article, I posted it last week in a thread called "Why isn't Wall Street in jail?" The thread titled "Will Banksters Get Away With It" is another one that references Matt Tabbi's article.

And I also found, that this don't piss people off like it really should. :huh:
 

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OK I'm piss'd now.
Why always doom and gloom !
Just because it's 2011 things have not changed since way back when. Same old **** just new faces. 
 

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Are you saying that we should now privatize law enforcement??? The government belongs to us. We should simply demand that they do thier job or fire them. The only way this will ever happen is when we stop letting ourselves be distracted by the political game. It is a game designed to distract us from the real problems by talkking about bullshit like gays in the army and health care.

If you lost the points in any anti-corporate outrage, I fear that you can not look past your political views to see truth.
One reason these crimes don't get more people riled up is that the rules of finance are so arcane that no one outside the system understands any of it. I read the article and saw lots of statements from ex-employees about transactions that were obviously shady in their eyes, but most of them were Greek to me. Tell me someone stuck a knife in someone's heart and I know what that means. Tell me someone was hiding compensation in an RSU, and I just have to assume you know what you are talking about when you say that is wrong. Sorry, it's just kind of human nature to ignore what you don't understand.
 

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Psssst Tex.. someone stole your kids and grandkids future.. :lookinup:
So what does that mean?

I see you continue on impotent tirades about corperate maleficence and governmental incompetence, and all you seem to want to do about it is ask us to wake up.

I'm awake. I see this. It is happening.

Now what?

What is the plan, the coarse of action, the future goal? Where are you headed with this?:huh:
 

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What is the plan, the coarse of action, the future goal? Where are you headed with this?:huh:
The plan is to wake up enough people to make a difference. the course of action is to support, help and elect constitutional based leaders. The future goal is to restore the republic. I'm not sure where I am headed with this, other than to open enough eyes to make a change you can believe in.

If we stand by, people who are even worse than what we have had for the last 40 or so years will come into power. This is not about republicans and democrats, because they are one in the same at the national level. Bill Clinton is no different than Ronald Reagen, Obama is no different than Bush. They all did the same thing, spend spend spend, expand expand expand. We got to get enough people awake to the realization that this whole system of banking and government does not end good..

Fox/CNN/ABC/NBC/CBS/Etc. will not tell the truth and will not watchdog the goings on, people must take it upon themselves to due, due diligence, research, expose.

The problem is, I don't know if it's too late. :huh:
 

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Discussion Starter #11
One reason these crimes don't get more people riled up is that the rules of finance are so arcane that no one outside the system understands any of it. I read the article and saw lots of statements from ex-employees about transactions that were obviously shady in their eyes, but most of them were Greek to me. Tell me someone stuck a knife in someone's heart and I know what that means. Tell me someone was hiding compensation in an RSU, and I just have to assume you know what you are talking about when you say that is wrong. Sorry, it's just kind of human nature to ignore what you don't understand.
Well there were two cases of insider trading at the begining of the article. In the case of insider trading someone who has knowledge of a merger or some other large stock moving situation trades in the stock making huge illegal profits. Remember Martha Stewart...she went to jail for just that. But she wasn't a true insider so she gets prison time while the true thieves just get richer.
Everybody who isn't an insider and trades in that stock is the victim. You are probably a victim since these companies that were the subject of insider trading are commonly held stocks by 401K stock funds and instutional investors.

And the meat of all this is that it is simply not a political thing. It isn't about rich and poor or corporate against the masses, or republican vs democrats, it's about the theft of our money by people who regularly buy off our government. John Mack (one of the inside traders) donated heavily to George Bush's campaign then donated heavily to Hillary Clintons. Again not a republican Vs democrat thing...they both suck if you blindly vote for either.

Your initial reaction is the problem...you assumed that this was corporate bashing...but it is just the opposite. The corporations are also the victims....because the stock holders of those corporations (the owners) are getting hosed every day. Look at the stock holders of AIG. They were told just weeks before thier stock became worthless that they would not loose one single dollar. Look at the stock holders of Lehman bros. the compensation of the CEO was being hidden from them.

We need to stop thinking that just because someone has an R or a D next to their name that they are the good guy or the bad guy. We need to make these people pay and we need to start with that jackass Schummer. Dems and pubs alike should flood his office with letters and jam his phone lines with calls telling him to start doing something about what happened and start doing it now....before the statute of limitations expires. And anyone who blocks or interferes with the investigation has to pay at the polls. But the only way to do this is to join forces. We need to stop bickering and fighting for the crumbs that these assholes have left for us. we need to put aside right and left at least for this cause and push for justice.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
The plan is to wake up enough people to make a difference. the course of action is to support, help and elect constitutional based leaders. The future goal is to restore the republic. I'm not sure where I am headed with this, other than to open enough eyes to make a change you can believe in.

If we stand by, people who are even worse than what we have had for the last 40 or so years will come into power. This is not about republicans and democrats, because they are one in the same at the national level. Bill Clinton is no different than Ronald Reagen, Obama is no different than Bush. They all did the same thing, spend spend spend, expand expand expand. We got to get enough people awake to the realization that this whole system of banking and government does not end good..

Fox/CNN/ABC/NBC/CBS/Etc. will not tell the truth and will not watchdog the goings on, people must take it upon themselves to due, due diligence, research, expose.

The problem is, I don't know if it's too late. :huh:
It will only be too late when we don't care anymore. You have been right on target with this issue and I for one stand with you. :thumbsup:
 

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Well there were two cases of insider trading at the begining of the article. In the case of insider trading someone who has knowledge of a merger or some other large stock moving situation trades in the stock making huge illegal profits. Remember Martha Stewart...she went to jail for just that. But she wasn't a true insider so she gets prison time while the true thieves just get richer.
Everybody who isn't an insider and trades in that stock is the victim. You are probably a victim since these companies that were the subject of insider trading are commonly held stocks by 401K stock funds and instutional investors.

And the meat of all this is that it is simply not a political thing. It isn't about rich and poor or corporate against the masses, or republican vs democrats, it's about the theft of our money by people who regularly buy off our government. John Mack (one of the inside traders) donated heavily to George Bush's campaign then donated heavily to Hillary Clintons. Again not a republican Vs democrat thing...they both suck if you blindly vote for either.

Your initial reaction is the problem...you assumed that this was corporate bashing...but it is just the opposite. The corporations are also the victims....because the stock holders of those corporations (the owners) are getting hosed every day. Look at the stock holders of AIG. They were told just weeks before thier stock became worthless that they would not loose one single dollar. Look at the stock holders of Lehman bros. the compensation of the CEO was being hidden from them.

We need to stop thinking that just because someone has an R or a D next to their name that they are the good guy or the bad guy. We need to make these people pay and we need to start with that jackass Schummer. Dems and pubs alike should flood his office with letters and jam his phone lines with calls telling him to start doing something about what happened and start doing it now....before the statute of limitations expires. And anyone who blocks or interferes with the investigation has to pay at the polls. But the only way to do this is to join forces. We need to stop bickering and fighting for the crumbs that these assholes have left for us. we need to put aside right and left at least for this cause and push for justice.

Wow. Really well stated. It's not a case of political affiliation...it's a case of criminals being allowed to perform the heist....and being given the blessing to do it again.
 

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It is every bit a case of party affiliation. The suggested and championed fix for the problem, is at absolute odds with the two party's ideologies. One believes that the cause lays with governments intervention by way of regulation... and the other believes that same government is the cure due to it's ability to regulate.

We need to stop bickering and fighting for the crumbs that these assholes have left for us. we need to put aside right and left at least for this cause and push for justice
Lets see if the two ideologies can agree on even this small thought. Lets you and I stay out of it for a bit... and see what the members call justice.

What would be justice... what would it look like ?

How would you implement it ?

Who would be the recipient of this justice ?
 

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Discussion Starter #15
It is every bit a case of party affiliation. The suggested and championed fix for the problem, is at absolute odds with the two party's ideologies. One believes that the cause lays with governments intervention by way of regulation... and the other believes that same government is the cure due to it's ability to regulate
Of course you see it this way. :rolleyes: Makes no difference that these guys buy the right and the left without any difference in the out come to them. The whole issue is party to you. The whole issue is ideology to you, and this purely ignorant divisive stance is what allows these guys to go on day after day setting us up and destroying our economy.

I know that you are a firm zealot of the right religion...but take your head out of your ass for a minute and look around. The right and left alike are getting screwed and your political religion just hides this fact.

I know that you live everyday to post your "conservative" views here. You live to proselytize, to gain new converts to your views and your beliefs. But not everything is black and white. This isn't a plot to weaken the right and impose communism in the USA. We need to put party aside to preserve our way of life. We need to take back our economy, from people who unfairly use our laws against us to steal form every one of us, regardless of political affiliation. We need to have a country before we have a right and left.

Perhaps you are the one who should sit this one out...I for one will not.
 

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Of course you see it this way.
So... you were a republican and then a democrat and now you are what... in the middle ? What ever dude.

Listen. I'm trying to keep this civil and get you to answer a few direct questions. You keep firing these potshots and leftism's at me. Now, if I do it back to you... you are going to whine and complain about it, as you always do. How about you just answering the questions ?
 

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Discussion Starter #17
So... you were a republican and then a democrat and now you are what... in the middle ? What ever dude.

Listen. I'm trying to keep this civil and get you to answer a few direct questions. You keep firing these potshots and leftism's at me. Now, if I do it back to you... you are going to whine and complain about it, as you always do. How about you just answering the questions ?
As I have stated many times here before I am a registered Republican. I was elected as a Republican mayor. I am a member of my local Republican club. But I do not believe in every republican principle that the party puts out (sorry but I am not a sheep that blindly follows and does whatever I am told). I do not have a problem with preserving the environment, and common sense rules to preserve it are ok with me (cap and trade is not a common sense rule) . I don't give a **** about what a woman does with her own body, so all the abortion **** is out for me. I do care about fiscal responsability and I beileve in not spending more than you take in. I am for smaller government but have not seen that from any of the last three Republicans elected president.

As for what I would do on wall street????

1. I would make it illegal for any person who has worked for the government to take a private sector position in the industry that he oversaw for a period of 5 years. That should become effective immediatly. I would also give tenure to all investigators in the SEC, so that no one could be fired for investigating the "wrong person".

2. I would look at all the loopholes that have been opened up in the last 30 years, that allow wall street to hide the things that they do and allow them to invent new products to get around existing laws.

3. I would set up a new section of the bar association that would deal specificaly with attorneys dealing in the financial industries. And I would ask that the bar association review the ethics rules associated with the financial sector.

4. I would set up a new form of RICO staute that would make the systematic gaming of the system to unfairly enrich those that have been stealing from us a true crime that puts these guys away just like the mobsters they are.

Of course I am no expert in this and there should be congesional investigations into this entire situation. Open investigations like those that looked at organized crime and communism. This should become the biggest thing in the news, and lots of heads should roll...including but not limited to Chuck Schummer.

So what would you do????
 

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Beautiful. No doubt, I would do things a bit differently... but, before I get in to my way -let me toss a wrench in to your plan.

The poor need housing. The government regulations imposed upon the lending and banking industry, are too stringent and need to be relaxed in order for the poor to attain the same right to buy a home as you or I. How do you allow for their right to own a home -and at the same time --keep unscrupulous men and women from taking advantage of the ease in regulation ?
 

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Discussion Starter #19
Beautiful. No doubt, I would do things a bit differently... but, before I get in to my way -let me toss a wrench in to your plan.

The poor need housing. The government regulations imposed upon the lending and banking industry, are too stringent and need to be relaxed in order for the poor to attain the same right to buy a home as you or I. How do you allow for their right to own a home -and at the same time --keep unscrupulous men and women from taking advantage of the ease in regulation ?
This is a rediculous question. Nobody deserves a house if they cannot afford to pay for it. And that is the banks duty to determine. We all need to prove our income and our continued likelyhood of recieveing at least that income. Banks would have continued to work under that formula had the securitization of mortgages not been invented to remove all risk from the banks ledgers and place it in our hands. Regardless of what laws said regarding giving loans to the poor, banks would not have done the kind of lending they did without the securitized mortgage instrument.
 

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Beautiful. No doubt, I would do things a bit differently... but, before I get in to my way -let me toss a wrench in to your plan.

The poor need housing. The government regulations imposed upon the lending and banking industry, are too stringent and need to be relaxed in order for the poor to attain the same right to buy a home as you or I. How do you allow for their right to own a home -and at the same time --keep unscrupulous men and women from taking advantage of the ease in regulation ?
That's easy. No one has a "right" to own a home. Either you have earned enough money to purchase a home on the open market or you haven't. If you haven't, you probably will be renting. If you can't afford rent, there is government subsidized housing available.
 
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