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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
It seems real quiet so I thought I'd throw a coupla questions in and see if everyone's awake...

I have a mild engine and shift kit in the transmission, so is it worth running an external cooler for the transmission?

I'm installing e Jeep steering box, so is it worth running an external cooler for the power steering?

Is it worth running a dual path cooler to do the tranny and PS?

:D

EDIT:

I forgot to say that I'll be running Hydroboost off the PS pump as well
 

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An external Tranny cooler is definately worth running. You need to keep the tranny oil temp as far under 200 as possible, at 200 things start to die. There is no real low temp limt. The transmissions should run fine at 20 Below.
My personal preference is a Aluminum extruded heat sink type and I do NOT like running it thru the radiator.
The PS coolers I have no idea how necessary they are, don't know what the normal operating temps are, but the same rules apply, its the same rubber in the seals and the same kind of juice. There are several types of coolers I have seen out there, passive, forced air, whatever. I recon that a dual path forced air cooler is the catz azz if thats what you want to run. I'll be looking into it as soon as I have mine on the road to monitor PS temps
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
An external Tranny cooler is definately worth running. You need to keep the tranny oil temp as far under 200 as possible, at 200 things start to die. There is no real low temp limt. The transmissions should run fine at 20 Below.
My personal preference is a Aluminum extruded heat sink type and I do NOT like running it thru the radiator...
So, bypass the radiator altogether and just go straight through a seperate cooler?

The PS coolers I have no idea how necessary they are, don't know what the normal operating temps are, but the same rules apply, its the same rubber in the seals and the same kind of juice. There are several types of coolers I have seen out there, passive, forced air, whatever. I recon that a dual path forced air cooler is the catz azz if thats what you want to run. I'll be looking into it as soon as I have mine on the road to monitor PS temps
What I've be running around my head is to run a line from the low pressure return side of the Jeep steering box to a cooler THEN back to the PS pump. I've been looking at some dual path finned coolers that I thought I could mount down near the AC condensor.

Sorry Danny, I forgot to add that I'll be running Hydroboost as well. It was that and the Jeep box which has had me thinking for a while about a PS fluid cooler...
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Danny, I was scrolling through CF and saw pics of your setup. Are you still using the 18" heat sink type cooler? If so, where'd you mount it? In your opinion, do you think one of those coolers for the tranny and a seperate one for the PS would be ok or would a seperate, dual circuit finned type (mini radiator) cooler, with/without an electric fan, be better?

Who else has done this?
 

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IMO, other than looks, I fail to see the practical use of a heatsink type finned aluminum monster for LONGER TERM cooling in a car, reason is it still takes airflow and without airflow that thing will heat up like a mofo,

one idea you may want to try, is using the condensor/evap coils from a room air conditioner, they maybe well dual parallel flow 3/8 lines snaking through there, and from a refrigerator, you MAY be able to locate a suitable PS fluid cooler, can't say much for hood clearance issues, but there is typically 2-3" of space between the a/c cond and radiator....

I have used these condensors to great affect through the years, finding them much better/larger than ANY aftermarket purpose built unit I have evern seen, never checked for an 18 wheeler though....:laughing:

I do know that for every 100f day here in Florida, you all have 2-3 150f days....

which is why I suggested the above....
 

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My cooler is going to be mounted under the car on the frame under the pass side, it will be in the slip stream to carry away the heat so heat buildup should Not be a problem.
I am running Hydroboost also, or will be soon as I get my car on the road. I can't see any harm in running a cooler like that on the PS system, But I have No imperical info on whats happening on the PS system for temps. I would guess it gets hot from experience with hydraulics, but what is hot? Cooling it can't hurt, but the question is "is a cooler going to provide any real return"?
 

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My cooler is going to be mounted under the car on the frame under the pass side, it will be in the slip stream to carry away the heat so heat buildup should Not be a problem.
I am running Hydroboost also, or will be soon as I get my car on the road. I can't see any harm in running a cooler like that on the PS system, But I have No imperical info on whats happening on the PS system for temps. I would guess it gets hot from experience with hydraulics, but what is hot? Cooling it can't hurt, but the question is "is a cooler going to provide any real return"?
6' I hear you man, I know my '87 had a single loop in the power steering line for a cooler, mounted near the front frame rail.... it didn't look large enough to be effective....what in hell I know, though...maybe the oil don't circulate if the steering isn't turning?? brakes not applied??

so it was right behind the 16" cooling fan airflow....which is where I have looked at putting the tranny cooler also, but couldnt figger out a EASY was to mount it, and it is on the bottom front edge of the a/c condensor now, so being lazy, that's it...amazing the amount of room ditching that stupid stock shroud/fan/'87 vette van did in the engine compartment, regular Carlsbad Caverns down there now....:smack
 

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Yea, some of the PS coolers are just an extra 8" or so of metal line looped in there so as to catch a little air or clamped to the frame for a heat sink, so that makes me think that there isn't that much heat generated in the PS system. Like you say, if your just running down the road, is the pump idling? I really don't know.


CALLING JIM SHEA!!!
 

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IMHO, the power steering pump should be making it's rated/regulated pressure all the time. The circulation, since it's what I'd call an "open" system, should help keeping the oil cool. It's still gonna' get hot, anytime you restrict an oil system to get pressure heat builds. And Saudi- as hot as it gets in the sandbox, I'd have to say that anything you can do for cooling can't hurt at all. I had a list of temps and effects for transmissions. If I could just find it..
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Good info thanks guys. I thought with running the Jeep box and Hydroboost, then the PS is gonna be working overtime as soon as I start the engine. Even driving in a straight line without using the brakes, the pump is still pushing fluid through components and hose that wasn't there when it rolled out of the factory and all of that's gonna create heat.

I still think a dual circuit radiator style cooler would be better, mounted in front of the A/C condensor. Athough, looking at the 18" heat sink style coolers, I thought one for the tranny and one for the PS, mounted vertically each side of the radiator might be ok too...
 

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Saudi, I agree with Tim. In the sandbox you should probably do everything you can to cool your juice. Something like this dual circuit with the fan would seem to be the answer

Of course, it ain't my $$ either
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Looking for one of them now 6'. Trying to find one that isn't gonna leave too much of a hole in my wallet :rolleyes:
 

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The fact that you are using hydroboost probably doesn't affect steering fluid temperatures that much. I would suggest that probably your ambient temperatures in Saudi Arabia are going to be much more of a factor. Attach your cooler in the 3/8 return line from the Jeep gear back to the pump. Make sure that the cooler has a good supply of air.

I would suggest using the genuine GM power steering fluid along with a cooler.
Jim
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
The fact that you are using hydroboost probably doesn't affect steering fluid temperatures that much. I would suggest that probably your ambient temperatures in Saudi Arabia are going to be much more of a factor. Attach your cooler in the 3/8 return line from the Jeep gear back to the pump. Make sure that the cooler has a good supply of air.

I would suggest using the genuine GM power steering fluid along with a cooler.
Jim
Thanks Jim. I'll run a cooler in the front of the car as I have a bit of room there now that all the headlight vacuum stuff is gone. I'll use the GM fluid too if you reckon it'll make a difference. :thumbsup:
 

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You'll have plenty of room with the headlights gone. Look at what I crammed in there LOL



Here's how I mounted a tranny cooler, it gets full airflow here. I prefer the stakced plate type coolers btw, they are much tougher than the tube and fin style.

 

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Nearly all power steering systems that are in production have what is called an open center. That is power steering fluid is free flowing through the system while you are driving straight ahead and not turning the steering wheel (or applying the brakes with hydroboost). The only pressure that is being produced is that amount to overcome the restrictions in the hoses, gear valve, hydroboost valving, fittings, etc.

Normal system back pressure runs around 50 to 75 psi. Your pump only starts to build pressure when you turn the steering wheel. Nearly all power steering gears in the world use a rotary valve with a torsion bar. Whey you turn the steering wheel you twist the torsion bar; the rotary valve in the gear begins to restrict the flow; and the pump produces pressure against the restriction. The gear valve also begins to direct the flow in the direction of the steering to provide the assist.

The only time the pump produces its rated pressure is when you are at full lock. Then the rotary valve in the gear completely blocks flow. The pump goes into pressure relief and recirculates the pump flow internally. Then 100% of the rated pressure tries to complete the steering maneuver at full lock.

What can really hurt a power steering pump is to hold the steering at full lock while the engine is at a very hign rpm. This causes the recirculating fluid inside the pump to quickly increase. I can imagine that gymkhana type racing can produce the above. (People that try and parallel park and get stuck in a snow drift can produce the same problem - i.e. racing the engine; spinning the tires while cramping the steering wheel at full lock.)

Jim
 

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What can really hurt a power steering pump is to hold the steering at full lock while the engine is at a very hign rpm. This causes the recirculating fluid inside the pump to quickly increase. I can imagine that gymkhana type racing can produce the above. (People that try and parallel park and get stuck in a snow drift can produce the same problem - i.e. racing the engine; spinning the tires while cramping the steering wheel at full lock.)

Jim[/QUOTE]


Snow, Drift?? what is that you referr to???:crazy: :lookinup: :huh:
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
You'll have plenty of room with the headlights gone...
But I spent all the time and effort converting them to electric!

...Here's how I mounted a tranny cooler, it gets full airflow here. I prefer the stakced plate type coolers btw, they are much tougher than the tube and fin style.
I looked at some of those stacked plate coolers (they get a good right up) but I was still worried about having the room to run 2 of them. With Jim saying the PS shouldn't be overly affected by running Hydroboost, I've decided to go with a heat sink style cooler - 1 each for the PS system and for the tranny. I did some measuring earlier and I will be able to run two of them up front without any problems...
 
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