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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
The "Electric Edsel"... :rolling: This is what happens when you combine the brains of day labor, and free money from taxpayers.

Green Technology: Government Motors' all-electric car isn't all-electric and doesn't get near the touted hundreds of miles per gallon. Like "shovel-ready" jobs, maybe there's no such thing as "plug-ready" cars either.

The Chevy Volt, hailed by the Obama administration as the electric savior of the auto industry and the planet, makes its debut in showrooms next month, but it's already being rolled out for test drives by journalists. It appears we're all being taken for a ride.

When President Obama visited a GM plant in Hamtramck near Detroit a few months ago to drive a Chevy Volt 10 feet off an assembly line, we called the car an "electric Edsel." Now that it's about to hit the road, nothing revealed has changed our mind.

Advertised as an all-electric car that could drive 50 miles on its lithium battery, GM addressed concerns about where you plug the thing in en route to grandma's house by adding a small gasoline engine to help maintain the charge on the battery as it starts to run down. It was still an electric car, we were told, and not a hybrid on steroids.

That's not quite true. The gasoline engine has been found to be more than a range-extender for the battery. Volt engineers are now admitting that when the vehicle's lithium-ion battery pack runs down and at speeds near or above 70 mph, the Volt's gasoline engine will directly drive the front wheels along with the electric motors. That's not charging the battery — that's driving the car.

So it's not an all-electric car, but rather a pricey $41,000 hybrid that requires a taxpayer-funded $7,500 subsidy to get car shoppers to look at it. But gee, even despite the false advertising about the powertrain, isn't a car that gets 230 miles per gallon of gas worth it?

We heard GM's then-CEO Fritz Henderson claim the Volt would get 230 miles per gallon in city conditions. Popular Mechanics found the Volt to get about 37.5 mpg in city driving, and Motor Trend reports: "Without any plugging in, (a weeklong trip to Grandma's house) should return fuel economy in the high 30s to low 40s."

Car and Driver reported that "getting on the nearest highway and commuting with the 80-mph flow of traffic — basically the worst-case scenario — yielded 26 miles; a fairly spirited backroad loop netted 31; and a carefully modulated cruise below 60 mph pushed the figure into the upper 30s."

http://www.investors.com/NewsAndAna...010191855/Volt-Fraud-At-Government-Motors.htm
 

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A lot of the numbers on this thing have gone way down hill with regulation changes, but all the articles I have read about the car being a "fraud" are all based on the classic style of review where they ring it out for several hundred miles. The car is intended to be a daily commuter and for the most part peoples' driving needs will not exceed the capacity of the batteries. Granted the gas mileage is not awesome once it has to use it, but I think for the most part you will find that many won't have to fill up for months at a time.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
A lot of the numbers on this thing have gone way down hill with regulation changes, but all the articles I have read about the car being a "fraud" are all based on the classic style of review where they ring it out for several hundred miles. The car is intended to be a daily commuter and for the most part peoples' driving needs will not exceed the capacity of the batteries. Granted the gas mileage is not awesome once it has to use it, but I think for the most part you will find that many won't have to fill up for months at a time.
That's probably true.. as long as you don't drive it, you shouldn't need a gas station very often. :thumbsup:
 

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That's probably true.. as long as you don't drive it, you shouldn't need a gas station very often. :thumbsup:
:laughing:, I think most people on here like to drive more than that car could handle, but if you consider the 40 miles on a charge a daily usage that's still 14600 miles a year.
 

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I'm glad to read this, because I went to the Texas State Fair in Sept for the express purpose of seeing the new cars and concept cars. They had a Chevy Volt and for show, they had a Volt frame and running gear - body off - to show the battery and electric motor. Right there near the front was what I was pretty damn sure was an internal combustion engine. I thought, WTF, I thought this was an all electric vehicle. Now I know I wasn't just imagining things. My guess is that all of their testing has shown the all electric to simply be not practical, so they have tacked the IC engine on to get better range numbers out of it. :crazy:
 

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I only have 2 points on this latest version of the "electric car"

At my house (at yours too) I have this round thingy attached to my house that sends a signal to the electric company to make by ELECTRIC BILL accurate. I haven't crunched the numbers but I was taught in school that the internal combustion engine is the most effecent use of BTU's.

If I owned a gas owered car that got pretty much an honest 30mpg and I drove (on average) 15,000 miles a year =500 gallons of fuel @ $3.00 a gallon equates to $1500. How much electricity will it cost to charge the volt a year for 15,000 miles a year? So my money went to coal insead of oil right?

I also am one of those lucky buggers who live in a place that winter visits once a year. We sometimes have a week (in Jan) where the tempature does not go above 0 degrees F. When this thing sits outside for 10 to 12 hours (at work) what happens to the batters then? Plus what the heck does this car do to create heat (for the pasengers) and what does that do for gas milage?
 

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I only have 2 points on this latest version of the "electric car"

At my house (at yours too) I have this round thingy attached to my house that sends a signal to the electric company to make by ELECTRIC BILL accurate. I haven't crunched the numbers but I was taught in school that the internal combustion engine is the most effecent use of BTU's.

If I owned a gas owered car that got pretty much an honest 30mpg and I drove (on average) 15,000 miles a year =500 gallons of fuel @ $3.00 a gallon equates to $1500. How much electricity will it cost to charge the volt a year for 15,000 miles a year? So my money went to coal insead of oil right?

I also am one of those lucky buggers who live in a place that winter visits once a year. We sometimes have a week (in Jan) where the tempature does not go above 0 degrees F. When this thing sits outside for 10 to 12 hours (at work) what happens to the batters then? Plus what the heck does this car do to create heat (for the pasengers) and what does that do for gas milage?
Those are great questions, and all of them will have to be answered.

I cannot imagine anyone buying one of these in the first year.
 

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Tex - I'm almost sure it was never supposed to be a pure electric vehicle, maybe the very first concept that doesn't resemble the production one was, but the production version was never all electric.

Walley - Estimates put the cost of the 40 mile charge at $2 worth of electricity so if most of your driving is done under the the power of electricity your yearly "fuel" cost is only $750. I also bet that they have plans for heating and cold batteries, but I too will wait to see what effects cold weather has on the car. Additionally Michigan is the first state to start a program for ev customers where they can charge for less during off peak hours or pay a flat fee of $40 a month. I can't immediately find the details of the program, but that would only be $480 a year.
 

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Those are great questions, and all of them will have to be answered.

I cannot imagine anyone buying one of these in the first year.
And I could never imagine anyone electing Obama as POTUS.:crazy: Most of these same people would buy this POS if given enough money.
 

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Well, I dont know where to weigh in on this debate. Im not much on the electric car fad. But from reading the opening post, Im left with one question. if your gonna spend low 41k on a car, why not take it to 45k and get yourself a vette? If your going for gas mileage, and your gonna get high 20s and low 30s anyhow, do it in style :thumbsup:
 

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Tex - I'm almost sure it was never supposed to be a pure electric vehicle, maybe the very first concept that doesn't resemble the production one was, but the production version was never all electric.

Walley - Estimates put the cost of the 40 mile charge at $2 worth of electricity so if most of your driving is done under the the power of electricity your yearly "fuel" cost is only $750. I also bet that they have plans for heating and cold batteries, but I too will wait to see what effects cold weather has on the car. Additionally Michigan is the first state to start a program for ev customers where they can charge for less during off peak hours or pay a flat fee of $40 a month. I can't immediately find the details of the program, but that would only be $480 a year.
These things take some serious power to charge. I'm pretty sure you need a 30 amp circuit to charge at 110v. Imagine the additional electrical system - including power plants and lines that would be needed if suddenly there were 50 million of these things. I'm sure it can all work, but it will be trading one form of CO2 and other pollutants for another.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
A real electric car costs $26k... and can go about twice as far on a charge as the "Electric Edsel". :laughing:

Nissan Leaf
 

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These things take some serious power to charge. I'm pretty sure you need a 30 amp circuit to charge at 110v. Imagine the additional electrical system - including power plants and lines that would be needed if suddenly there were 50 million of these things. I'm sure it can all work, but it will be trading one form of CO2 and other pollutants for another.
The car can plug into the wall and charge in 10 hours, the level II 240 volt charger requires a dedicated 30 amp circuit and gets the job done in 5 hours. Obviously our power infrastructure couldn't handle an instant shift to electric vehicles. Clearly for most of us on here the thought of losing an internal combustion engine is sickening, myself included. I think however that there is a major part of the population that can benefit from electric vehicles. Even if its trading one pollutant for another if its less pollution at least it is a step in the right direction. Are electric cars the answer maybe not, at least not the whole answer, but if the attitude towards them and other alternatives doesn't change there won't be any progress.
 

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I'm glad to read this, because I went to the Texas State Fair in Sept for the express purpose of seeing the new cars and concept cars. They had a Chevy Volt and for show, they had a Volt frame and running gear - body off - to show the battery and electric motor. Right there near the front was what I was pretty damn sure was an internal combustion engine. I thought, WTF, I thought this was an all electric vehicle. Now I know I wasn't just imagining things. My guess is that all of their testing has shown the all electric to simply be not practical, so they have tacked the IC engine on to get better range numbers out of it. :crazy:
The engine in this vehicle is strictly used as a generator, as there is no direct mechanical connection between the Volt's and the drive wheels. In extended-range driving, the engine generates power that is fed through the drive unit and is balanced by the generator and traction motor.

Under heaving accelerating/freeway above 70mph the engine has the ability to send electricity directly to the electrical motor.

The Voltec Electric Drive cannot operate without power from the electric motors.

A better way to describe the volt would be to say its an "electricity driven car"
 

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Obviously our power infrastructure couldn't handle an instant shift to electric vehicles. Clearly for most of us on here the thought of losing an internal combustion engine is sickening, myself included. I think however that there is a major part of the population that can benefit from electric vehicles. Even if its trading one pollutant for another if its less pollution at least it is a step in the right direction. Are electric cars the answer maybe not, at least not the whole answer, but if the attitude towards them and other alternatives doesn't change there won't be any progress.
Here's another little subject the tree huggers don't adress, What do you do with hundreds of lithium batteries when they are bad (thats hundreds per car BTW) Can you just throw them in the landfill?

My point is, Battery power is not the long term solution either, hydrogen produces no harmfull emissions, just have to invent a way to store and the best part it is still attached to the internal combustion engine:thumbsup:
 

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A real electric car costs $26k... and can go about twice as far on a charge as the "Electric Edsel". :laughing:

Nissan Leaf
The leaf is not really practical in comparison to the volt. When the charge on the volt is depleted, the extended mode kicks and, and you can keep driving for hundreds of miles as long as you stop and fuel up.

What happens if your 100km away from your house and the charge on your leaf runs out? You're either stuck charging your car for 8 hours, or you need to get towed home.
 

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The engine in this vehicle is strictly used as a generator, as there is no direct mechanical connection between the Volt's and the drive wheels.
Unfortunately this is incorrect. Despite what was said during development it has recently come to light as review units have come out that there is a direct drive connection. My current understanding of the setup is that the car run on electricity, both battery and generated up to somewhere in the 60mph range. It was necessary to make a direct connection because the the engine couldn't efficiently generate the electricity needed to power the car a highway speeds when the batteries are depleted.
 

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Here's another little subject the tree huggers don't adress, What do you do with hundreds of lithium batteries when they are bad (thats hundreds per car BTW) Can you just throw them in the landfill?

My point is, Battery power is not the long term solution either, hydrogen produces no harmfull emissions, just have to invent a way to store and the best part it is still attached to the internal combustion engine:thumbsup:
Every solution has a glitch. Do you know where they get hydrogen gas? From the hydrolysis of H2O using.........electricity. Lot's of it. Also from stripping it out of fossil fuels with lots of excess pollutants made.
 
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