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Discussion Starter #1
So some other threads have got me wondering: When does a street car cease to be just that? I mean at what point is it no longer fun or even possible to drive a car in dual use modes (and i mean road race)? For the sake of discussion let's overlook legal details such as whether it has wipers and a defroster and focus on what mods are "too much" for street. Certainly urethane suspensions are fine, what about heim jointed suspensions? Can the flexi-flyer frame be too stiff with a cage? I would think a 5.5-7.5K power band is likely excessive too.
So those with firsthand experience as passenger or driver please chime in. If you only have opinions jump in but be ready for the flame testing. :D

steve
 

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You can race any car in the world. It can be a Yugo. It doesn't have to be modified to be a race car.

But, when it starts to be unfun is when the race gear conflicts with the other things you want to do with your car.

For instance... race seats... they hold you in like you are in the grip of King Kong. But, they don't recline, and are not good for long drives IMHO.

Then there are seat belts... you give up something with 5-pt harnesses... the ability to reach the radio. Those suckers lock you in and that's it. There is little reaching you can do in the car when you are strapped in.

Roll cages... mine you have to climb over to get in and out of the car. I think door swingouts are a waste of time. It takes more time to pull the grenade pin and swing it out, then line it up and get the pin back in. Too slow, easier to slide in and out dukes of hazzard style.

It's things like that to consider.

But, all things said, I still take the race car to go get groceries or drive my son to school.:D
 

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I have given up on racing for a money/time reasons....not that i'm not interested.....I been dragracing, but it's been years since I have even been to a race track.....circled the high bank oval at Atlanta at ~140 mph or so, no biggie....gotta get used to follow that line, and hell with the sky, all you see out that windshield is road.....fun thrill....

MY car is hardly a race car, as a custom higher performance street machine that IF taken to a track by a person who can actually drive it well, may well acquit itself nicely....for a car with street tires, and all around driving....
HUGE differance between a dedicated drag car, a oval track car, a SCCA car, a Autocross wonder....so I have a decent interest in all of it, long as the envelope is pushed a bit further.....on a Budget.....

which is why I do all my own work, except welding, and If my welder buddy moves to New Orleans to be with his latest squeeze, I will have to buy a MIG machine to save my own ass....

:laughing: :crazy: :WTF :cheers:
 

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I don't think the ride is much of a problem to most that race. I have driven a car setting on an egg Crate in my younger days, but that was back when I was indestructible. the limiting factors would be idle RPM. Clutch pressure, and heat or lack of it in the drivers compartment. Also the exhaust system would be a limiting factor.
 

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Belonging to a private s####t racing club, we have two major rules as to what classifies as a race car.

1. Roll cage, any type.
2. Altered wheel housings/wells to accomidate a larger tire.

Thats about it.
You can show up with a 1000 hp car and if it has a 11.5 rear wheel/tire with out a cage, you have a street car my friend :D

Hope this has been of help.
 

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Society has become wimpified. Every car comes with air conditioning standard now days. The ride is smooth and seats are plush and comfortable.

Our ancestors rode in covered wagons for thousands of miles that probably rode harsher than any rubbered tire vehicle ever conceived.

Most of you guys don't even drive your stock C3s because you deem them to be too uncomfortable and unsafe for daily use.

The mentality now is surround youself with tons of steel and 32 airbags, ice cold A/C and a suspension that won't upset your grandmother. You guys drive these big honking trucks and suvs and think thats really living. In my opinion it sucks.

Hardly anyone in my club drives their car to an event anymore.
 

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I feel mine is a perfect example of a car that could go either way.
I do have 12 point roll cage, yes it is bolted in, yes it is totally functionaly as a roll cage regardless of what some say about bolting it down instead of welding. It does have a swing out door bar and yes I open it for my wife, strap her in the 5 point and then close the bar and the door. The seats are stock with the 5 point.
I do have full heim joint suspension, no bump steer, altered roll center and massive sway bars front and back and yet my ride is as good as my wife's factory bonneville. I get compliments all the time on the ride but it corners extremely flat.
Massive brakes, 14 inch , stock calipers yes but a simple pad change and they would be great.

1000 horse if I chose to run it that way.
Never overheats, loads plugs, get descent gas mileage and on cross country runs I run the lowest of the low in fuel. The cheapest I can find.
Let some hot anything come up against it on the street and you can effortlessly toast them without really trying.

I even expanded the floor in the purse area for my wife. Don't laugh a few guys on this forum can verify I actually cut the floor and added 2 inches to the side for her purse.
I have a road friendly gearing. 355 with a overdrive 5 speed so my rpm at 60 is 1900 and 2200 at 70. Mileage is 15 plus anytime and on the open road could approach 20. I run a full 3 inch exhuast and the quietest mufflers I could find with a full 3 inch inside. I also run ear plugs because I hate noise.
I have a great stero although I never listen to it.

So mine is comfortable to spend hours in, runs on low test gas, great handling and yet with 1000 horse on tap it can quickly turn into a tiger.
As for cams someone mentioned mine is 265/270 @ .050 and yet idles nicely with the rumble because it is feeding 540 inches.
A show stopper at any show it appears at and yet on the open road will run anything into the ground.
And the cage is NOT for show, it is totally functional.
The cops even look over the car and let me go.
 

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I feel mine is a perfect example of a car that could go either way.
I do have 12 point roll cage, yes it is bolted in, yes it is totally functionaly as a roll cage regardless of what some say about bolting it down instead of welding. It does have a swing out door bar and yes I open it for my wife, strap her in the 5 point and then close the bar and the door. The seats are stock with the 5 point.
I do have full heim joint suspension, no bump steer, altered roll center and massive sway bars front and back and yet my ride is as good as my wife's factory bonneville. I get compliments all the time on the ride but it corners extremely flat.
Massive brakes, 14 inch , stock calipers yes but a simple pad change and they would be great.

1000 horse if I chose to run it that way.
Never overheats, loads plugs, get descent gas mileage and on cross country runs I run the lowest of the low in fuel. The cheapest I can find.
Let some hot anything come up against it on the street and you can effortlessly toast them without really trying.

I even expanded the floor in the purse area for my wife. Don't laugh a few guys on this forum can verify I actually cut the floor and added 2 inches to the side for her purse.

So mine is comfortable to spend hours in, runs on low test gas, great handling and yet with 1000 horse on tap it can quickly turn into a tiger.
As for cams someone mentioned mine is 265/270 @ .050 and yet idles nicely with the rumble because it is feeding 540 inches.
A show stopper at any show it appears at and yet on the open road will run anything into the ground.
And the cage is NOT for show, it is totally functional.
The cops even look over the car and let me go.
Don't you just love blowers...nice idle, low compression and hang on...:thumbsup:
 

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Discussion Starter #10
I agree with turtle on what people think is a 'good' ride these days. I'm not looking for smooth otherwise i'd get a bimmer or cts. I like to feel that 1/4" seam in the pavement in my vette.

Norval: yours is probably close to what I'm thinking but with less $ in the engine. I was really intrigued by the swing out side bar idea for the wifey. I'm fairly sure mine won't be climbing into any car but then again the C6 wZ51 is too stiff for her longer than an hour or so, so maybe not a concern after all.

The common consensus is that a properly set up car with full mod suspension will be reasonable to street? I like firm but don't want to jar my fillings loose. As far as clutch pressure, interior temp, exhaust noise these will have to be personal preference.

One question not yet addressed is how much cam is too much? this would only see limited sat night / sunday afternoon street action and perhaps to and from track so stop and go would be limited. If idle quality is good at 1200 rpm and the torque is below 400 ft-lb at 1500 rpm would this be acceptable, disregard clutch pressure for a moment. I don't mind stiff but more importantly don't want to be in the boat the stock car racers are in where letting the clutch out too quickly can break a transmission.

steve
 

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Society has become wimpified. Every car comes with air conditioning standard now days. The ride is smooth and seats are plush and comfortable.

Our ancestors rode in covered wagons for thousands of miles that probably rode harsher than any rubbered tire vehicle ever conceived.

Most of you guys don't even drive your stock C3s because you deem them to be too uncomfortable and unsafe for daily use.

The mentality now is surround youself with tons of steel and 32 airbags, ice cold A/C and a suspension that won't upset your grandmother. You guys drive these big honking trucks and suvs and think thats really living. In my opinion it sucks.

Hardly anyone in my club drives their car to an event anymore.

I like it! :thumbsup: :laughing:

We like trailering one of our cars behind the Motor home and then put 600 miles in a specific area. My wife and I are in fairly good shape for our age and find the cars comfortable for long rides. Like strider, I don't think there is a limit on HP, just know how to handle it. I am not a big fan of major mods on suspension/steering, but I don't race anymore either.

Just my .02 :thumbsup:
 

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Massive brakes, 14 inch , stock calipers yes but a simple pad change and they would be great.
I completely disagree here, a simple pad change won't help. It's not pad fade that these calipers suffer from. Pad fade would result in keeping a rock hard pedal but feelink like being on ice, not having any significant deceleration at all. What the stock system has is boiling fluid fade, a spongy pedal that goes to the floor. This is because the caliper is a massive heat sink with nice large aluminium pistons, completely uninsulated w/ a large frontal face that is excellent for transferring heat into the fluid. No pad change will ever help there. Insulators help a little but are just a bandaid. Look at some wilwood/ap/brembo/alcon calipers and check out the insulator type stainless pistons, not how they are nothing more than a thin walled cylinder on the side that touches the pad.

i have swingouts in mine also but I can get in quicker by sliding over them, also quicker to get out that way. I should have left the swingouts for what they were.....oh well.

if a C6 Z51 is too stiff then you'd better get a cadillac. I don't think it's stiff at all. It's not even a lot stiffer than the stiffest setting on the mag. selective ride on the C5.

I agree with Turtle, comfort is overrated. I'll gladly have a sore ass and a lot of fun than a caddilac ride and a comfy seat.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
TT: I don't think the ride is too harsh on my C6, my wife does. I was just musing about whether or not a swing out side bar like yours or Norval's would encourage the sig other to ride along and if a solid suspension would be too harsh for her relative to the fact that about an hour is her limit in the C6 Z-51.

I also forgot to ask about ride height. The new vettes are 4.5" (about 11cm for those outside US) but are commonly lowered 1" no problem so that would be 3.5". Could one go this low in a C3 or even lower to like 2.5"?

steve
 

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It's easy to tell is a car is a race car or not!

If you spend more hours working on it than driving it:laughing:

That is after you think that it is complete and you are finally done.

Another good indication is that it is hardly ever running, on it's third motor and second tranny in one year, or it always looks like it has new tires(because they have to buy new ones so often)
 

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have you crashed lately?? then exactly how do you know it`s functional?
...redvetracr
He has a 12 point roll cage, that is some serious protection right there... how would it not be functional and I'm sure it wasnt just thrown together either...

:rolleyes:
 

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Put in a 4:11 or 4:56 rear and you'll feel like your driving a race car around town (assuming you've got a stong motor).
 

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I completely disagree here, a simple pad change won't help. It's not pad fade that these calipers suffer from. Pad fade would result in keeping a rock hard pedal but feelink like being on ice, not having any significant deceleration at all. What the stock system has is boiling fluid fade, a spongy pedal that goes to the floor. This is because the caliper is a massive heat sink with nice large aluminium pistons, completely uninsulated w/ a large frontal face that is excellent for transferring heat into the fluid. No pad change will ever help there. Insulators help a little but are just a bandaid. Look at some wilwood/ap/brembo/alcon calipers and check out the insulator type stainless pistons, not how they are nothing more than a thin walled cylinder on the side that touches the pad.

i have swingouts in mine also but I can get in quicker by sliding over them, also quicker to get out that way. I should have left the swingouts for what they were.....oh well.


if a C6 Z51 is too stiff then you'd better get a cadillac. I don't think it's stiff at all. It's not even a lot stiffer than the stiffest setting on the mag. selective ride on the C5.

I agree with Turtle, comfort is overrated. I'll gladly have a sore ass and a lot of fun than a caddilac ride and a comfy seat.
Brake ducts fix that. I was just wondering have you ever experienced brake fade with factory calipers? Only a few have. No that wasn't a smartass remark this time. I know redvetracr has j-56 and he has no problems. I'm not sure if he even runs ducts

Stock brakes and hawk pads are badass.
 
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