Dude,

It is sunday, I am on my PDA and hard to answer. I will address this in the morning as I am sure others will as well. I have some non-main stream ideas .... :thumbsup:

Do a search in the C3 tech section on overdrives and you will come up with some ideas as well ....

 

Aye no problem at all, the forum seems kinda dead tongiht. Any who this is somthing Im deff looking into. The manual tranny was an idea and somthing I wanted to do but this is somthing that is possible, remember im 17 and work in a restaruant lol.

But for everybody else can you tell me the diff between the 700r4 and 4l60, i know the 4l60e is newer but does it require electronics to control? Do they bolt in or what? I know Id need a new crossmember but I can fab that or buy one from bowtie overdrives. What about a stall? I'm thinking a 2000-2500 stall or around there. My motor is basically stock, just a descent cam intake and carb and of course an exhaust.

Any help is appreciated.

 

Lot of info here on this site.

http://www.transmissioncenter.net/4l60e.htm

 

Dont take me 100 percent however, im partial to my manuals, i dont like not having control of when my car changes gears, it gets real annoying when you are cruising and just cause u give it a little more gas it drops down to third for no reason other than giving it a little more gas. when i would take my camaro out and would hit some hills and i was going about 60 miles an hour, it would constantly switch between third and fourth.

I can tell you are on a budget, but even going with a stock 5 speed out of a shark vette will in my opinion give u more performance than any automatic.

Dont rule out the t56 it may not be as expensive as u think.

Dont use a t5 however, they were never built to handle a 350 engine, thats why you could only get the late model 350 camaros in automatic because the T5 could not handle the torque, i dont know what they put in the c4 vette, if it was a T5 it had to be a different kind.

Trust me on this I had a 5 speed camaro and stuck a L98 in it, the T5 lasted a month. Then i did research and found out why all 350 third gen camaros were autos lol.

sounds to me like u got some time to figure it out. if u want my opinion you will be HAPPIEST with a T56,

They make more conversion parts for a T56 for your vette than they do a 4L60 even though the T56 is also eltronic spedo controlled they make parts to turn it into a cable, used t56s can be cheep cause they can be found in almost anything,

ONE MORE THING, if my memory has not failed me different year 4L60 and T56 trannys were different Lengths and gear ratios, certain ones are easier to put in than others. A 98 OIL pan from a camaro will be your best fit.

definetly do some reserch on this.

I tell u though im looking forward to my T56 in mine cause i will be able to have 3.73 gears and still cruise 70 at low RPM on the interstate, and probably get over 20MPG with the matching LS3 I plan for.

but if u want something for now thats cheep d othe 700R4, there pretty reliable ive only busted the third gear clutch out of one of them, and it was the shops fault when they replaced my motor, they didnt align the torque converter up right and somehow it messed it up, dont ask me how im not all that tech savy but i do know my camaro and vette trannys

 

I will also interject the use of an add on OD like gear vendors with the standard trans. IMO, it gives a lot of options (splitting each gear) that the others don't.

This is an automatic with a GV OD

Chevy 4 speed Gear Vendors page"]Here is a link to their 4 speed OD add on. :thumbsup:

 

Any idea if that unit fits without modifying the transmission tunnel?

 

Thanks for all the info 82CEtunner :thumbsup: I love this forum.

Anyways that pretty muched anwsered my question, to go with the 700r4. I really do want a manual but for the budget im on (im 17 and work in a restraunt) it would be hard to do especially without having to keep the car broke down waiting on money to get parts.

I belive I can find a good 700r4 for around $400 if not cheaper then have it rebuilt and the shift kit you were talking about installed. I also noticed jegs carries kits to install these motors into carbed vehicles that overrides the lock up or somthing like that. Not really forsure what that was but if you can explain that to me Id appreciate it. The kits were between $80-$140 and just included a few plug-ins. I dont have the jegs book with me and dont really feel like checkin the site right now. I belive a descent stall is in order to, im not really forsure on which one to choose but im thinking anywhere from 2000-2500. I may take her to the strip every now and then and then also cut some corners pretty quick to. So i want the best combo I can get the cheapest I can get for now.

Of course later on I have plans for a LSX swap which will probably have a t56 but I want the best that i can do for now. I like my th350 but a drive to school from my house is 20 miles all high way and then 25 to my girlfriends and about 25 to work. and my motor running at 3500 rpms isnt that comfortable on me or the motor. The th350 is brand new rebuilt with a shift kit so I may keep it or sale it.

Oh and my car doesnt have a 308 gear, its a 355 unless some one has changed it which wouldnt suprise me but it does pull pretty good so I am thinking it is a 355, however sense i have to pull the diff cover and replace it I may have the gears changed afterall to 373 or even a 411 sense i will be going with OD.

Rjent I have looked at the GV OD unit and it seems pretty impresive and easy to install but a little bit pricy for me. However I may look into it for the fact that my trans is practiaclly brand new and it would be pretty cool to split every gear.

 

Negative, a 700-R4 swap does NOT require a new crossmember, you must simply fabricate a new mount to bolt the crossmember to the tail of the tranny.

The 700-R4 can be modified to stay in fourth at WOT.

The 200-4R is stronger, 1st gear isn't as low as with the 700-R4 but the gears are spread more evenly. If I had it to do all over again I wouldn't have gone with the 700-R4, I would've gone with the 200-4R. With over 300 horses and 3:55s first gear is a lot of fun but kinda useless since all I do is spin 'em.

Hopefully a little real-life experience will steer you the right direction.:thumbsup:

 

If you go with a 700R4, please get a later model one. The one GM put in my 82 was weak, and barely handled the 200 HP the engine put out. The later model years 87 or 88 have a stronger case and internals and makes a better rebuild. You will spend about $2K on the transmission, torque converter. Go with a 2200 RPm to 2400 RPM stall speed with the stock motor. The driveshaft has to be shortened and the mount modified.

A guy in my club went with a 200R4 in his 79, and said it was a much easier swap. I think it was cheaper than the 700R4 swap.
I agree with Caged-bird.

I have a built 700R4 in my 82, but I will be puting a 200R4 in my 73.:thumbsup:

 

Ok talked it over with dad.

He told me to stop and talk to the guys who overhauled my th350 and see if they would trade or take it in on trade in for whatever i needed. I'm gonna see if i can get a descent 700r4 or 200r4, id prefer the lower gear for the fun of it . But this is what im thinking i will need.

Trans 700 or 200
shift kit
overhaul if needed
and maybe a new stall

I mentioned a new stall and dad said no unless i would be racing it. He said that a 2000rpm stall wouldnt start pulling till 2000rpms and its just a waste of gas. Now im 17 and clueless about how these things work, some one plz enlightin me on how a tourqe converter works. Also i nocited in jegs they had a install kit for 700r4s to put in a carbed vehicles that overrode the torque conrevtor lock up or somthing along the lines, do I need to purchase this?

 

Cody, I believe your dad is wrong about torque converters. It is OK, everybody has trouble with understanding torque converters. I don't have a complete understanding of them, but I learned enough about my application before I bought, and I am happy.

The lower gear in my 700R4 is basically useless. It is really too low to stay in and "burn the tires". It shifts out at 20 to 25 MPH, and then second is too far away to keep the engine in the torque band. You would be better served with a 200R4. I stuck with the 700R4 in my 82 because that is what it had originally. My 73 will get a 200R4, for sure!

If you do get a 700R4, make sure you get a 30 spline unit. The earlier ones were 27 and they aren't worth the time or effort to install.

Don't put a shift kit in it. Either buy one built for higher HP, or have your trans shop build one for higher HP. Most shift kits make the car shift too hard in normal driving and it gets old fast. Most places increase the line pressure to make stronger 1-2 and 2-3 shifts.

It is cheaper to buy one from Gearstar or TCI, than to buy a suitable core in a junk yard, then have it built locally. These places put the units on the Dyno and make sure it is good before you get it.

There are stock converters, then 200-2400 stall converters, then billet converters for racing. Typically, the 200-2400 stall converters cost the same as the stock ones.

I took a look at the torque curve of my engine (Dyno pull). I picked a TC htat had a stall speed as close to the peak TQ as I could afford. In my case, optimum stall speed would have been about 3,200 RPM, but I didn't want to spend the extra dollars on a good billet TC, so I went with the highest one, which was a 2400 RPM stall. The car runs and drives like normal. If I go to the drag strip, I know I can pre-load my car to about 2200 RPM and launch without burning up any of the transmission clutches.

Do some reading on these web sites:

Gearstar
TCI
Yank
Precision Industries

A lot of the information you will get on these forums is hear say (including some of the crap I say). It is better to read direct from the source than to listen to ANYONE that has.

 

No problem, glad i could help, yeah definety go with the 700r4 then, go for the latest model you can, early 90s model or something, they should all be the same, and with them being hydraulicly controlled it does not matter one bit that u have a carbed engine, you should not need any additional kit or parts to make it work, atleast i dont think u would anyways.

it should change at the right RPMS but i think that involves the torque converter. I would probably have a transmission guy do shift kit install as it requires changing the plates, and removing all but 1 of the ball bearings in think. never done one myself.

I would not worry aboung changing rar end gears right now, you are going to notice that now that u have OD, your first three gears are going to be slightly higher than your 350 so you should have even better acceleration.

Sounds like u trying to conserve a little gas as well, so 4 11 would be high, and you would probably be over the 2000rpm mark at normal cruise speeds.

I had a monte Carlo with 3.73s with the stock 305 and considering the weight of that car it had plenty of get up and go in the first two gears. so the lighter vette with same tranny and bigger motor should give u all u need for now.

I doubt you would even want 4.11s when u put your t56 if you want to do some drag racing, you would be going threw the gears so fast it may actually give u a slower time than a automatic.

i think some 3.73s with your 700r4 with the shift kit and a 2500 stall would give u what u want. it will definetly be a blast to drive.

Just one question though, i didnt know you drove your car daily with no headlights lol how you pull that one off.

Oh also I plan on shaving my door locks, but i want to put some spare battery terminals underneath the car somewhere incase the battery dies and takes out my keyless entry. did you do anything like this?

 

Also Curby seems to know his 700r4 also, what he is suggesting would be a awsome route to take, however it will be expensive, i don't really know what your price range is but do some calculating


I think you could get a used 700r4 for 300 or less out of a junk yard.

Hawks third gen parts is a good place to get one to i belive its based in SC so i dont know what shipping would be. and definetly find out how much a rebuild would cost.

i know B and M sells a built 700R4 for around 2400 i think.

I guess it also depends how long u want it to last also.

700R4 are pretty cheep and easy to get ahold of. i know people just keep a few extra around for their camaros and firebirds.

what i was suggesting to you was the cheapest way out. either way with a complete stock 700R4 you will have OD but dont know how it would compare to a built 350.

and yes a shift kit will give u a hard quick shift, but thats what i refer to as a Performance shift. If you dont make alot of start and stops it wont bother u, but curby is right i dont know if i would want that kinda shifting if i was in the city.

remember a good stall converter is ganna run u about 500 bucks. a rebuild will depend on your mechanic, you you can definetly make some money back by selling your built 350.

NOTE alot of chevy enthusests with older muscle cars tend to favor the 350 it wont be hard to get rid of at all. if its a built up 350 u will get more for it than what u pay for a 700r4

 

Just to throw my 2 cents in.

I ran a 53 chevy with a mild 383 sbc, 700r4, and 3:73 gears, ran low 12's and got 17 mpg. the lockup converter is controlled by 12V and can be wired in many ways. I ran mine thru a vacuum switch, to the break light switch, and then to a manual switch. That way It would disengage when I went WOT, or Applied the brakes, and when I thru the switch. It also only engaged when in overdrive. I was running a B&M 2400 stall converter, and a small super charger that put my torque between 2200 and 4000 RPM. When picking a stall converter it is best to get it dynoed so your know where your torque kicks in.

 

82CEtuner- Thanks for all the help again, being 17 its hard to get people to take me serious. My goal is the best I can do for the least I can. I was wanting to find a used trans from maybe a junkyard or a transmission swap. Dad mentioned asking the trans shop that rebuilt mine if they would want to trade a 700r4 for my th350 or work somthing out.

I more then likely wont be changing gears as 3.55 is a good street gear. For the torque convertor i probably will go with about a 2200-2400. Like curby said it will still perform good but i have that hold back for if I ever take it to the strip

You also mentioned about my headlights lol, well Ive drove the car about 3 times this year. We are in the process (which has been in process for 2 years) of installing the lights down in the grilles like the old greenwood corvettes. I know of a few kits but a lil to pricy for me so im just going to wing it with somthing custom. With the door handles, well Ive encontered problems twice, one the battery died and once dad left the keys in the car while it was running. When the battery went dead we crawled under the car and hooked the battery charger to the starter, positive to the lead on the starter and the neg on the frame or etc. Then when dad left the car running he had to litterley break in but we wont go there lol. I notcied today in a Mid America book they offer battery cables that go under the front grilles on C6s for there door handles if the battery dies, i figured i could do somthing like that but so far I havnt got the chance to drive it to have any more problems.

Curby- Dad is wrong, hes an old skool hot rodder and is gulable, just convincing him that a good stall would be better will be hard. The 2004r sounds pretty good and does sound better then the 7004r but where can i find one? What vehicles did they come in? Is it the same install or is it easier or harder? Also you mentioned not a shift kit but a trans built for higher hp, well that sounds good untill I look at prices then my wallet hurts. As i stated to 82CEtuner price is most important right now. I just spent $188 on an intake and install stuff. Next is fixing the power steering. Which will probably cost a couple hundred bucks. But for now im gathering all the info I can so if i find a good deal i can pick up what i need.


Also i noticed from bowtie overdrives they ofer a shifter kit for the added gear and the markings for them. This was i belive $90. Is this needed?

 

Try to get a transmission place to tell you what cars had the 200R4 in it. I have no clue. I will buy mine from Gearstar more than likely.

I haven't done the swap in my 73 yet, but when I do, I will do a write-up. There may be some here or on the "other" forum (CF) that have done the swap. You can get a heavy duty 200R4 for about $1,200.00 or a mild one for about $900.00 online. I think, but I am not 100% sure that the 200R4 is the same dimension as the TH350 and you won't have to get your driveshaft shortened and balanced, or have the crossmember modified. You might need a new mount, though. I don't know if the yoke is splined the same or not,

You should be able to find the TC under $100, even for the higher stall ones. It is when you get into the billet ones that you start spending big money.

I paid $1,200.00 to have my 700R4 rebuilt in my 82 with the TC, but I had the core already and I did the swap myself.

If you want to have one rebuilt, then buy a core from a Pull-A-Part. I think they charge $40.00 for a transmission and TC. You may be able to put it in and use it. You are rolling the dice with them, but you might get a few months or years of service out of it before it dies.

It all depends on whether you think swapping the transmission is a big deal. I pulled mine out in a couple hours on 6 tom jack stands and a Harbor Freight transmission jack, and took the same amount of time to put it back in.

 

Your prcies are scaring me :lookinup:

I still need to stop my the trans shop. I havnt really got the time to due to work and skool. Football practice doesnt help either. But I will ask there opinion, if they will take me serious. I cant remember what the rebuild price on the th350 was but it should be around the same. My goal is to get away with $600 or less. I belive with a used trans about 200-400 and then a good torque convertor, rebuild and maybe a shift kit (its a toss up because of both price and not really no need for it) i should be in my goal range. Changing the trans out will be no problem, dad and I can have it done in a day or 2 depending on if we have all the parts we need at the time and how long it takes to get the driveshaft shortened and balanced.

Only time will tell though.

 

Cody check here http://www.corvettefaq.com/c3/700r4_swap.html

I did a little searching for u, looks like u will have to modify the crossmember as well as the driveshaft, however i think if u can find a crossmember and driveshaft out of a 82 you should be good. they also say a shop should be able to modify your crossmember to work with not to much trouble.

Im not on my computer but I have a link on it to a site that has a complete breakdown on common aftermarket installs on c3s from TPI, to 700R4 LS swaps and the works. When I get off site today I will grab my laptop out of the barreks and find it for ya.

I know exacly where u are comming from being 17 with a part time job but having a wishlist higher than your yearly income lol. You remind me alot of me.

If you wind up not doing this swap anytime soon, when i plan to do my LS and T56 Swap i will send u my 700R4 with parts needed just for shipping. Keep in mind that may be more than a year from now.

I may do it as soon as the end of this year if my money looks good. Also if I can find a Shop in NC that can even do it, because that is where my car is now.

Read that article though because the guy talks about some of the issues that may cost u money if u are not doing the swap yourself.

I know the Converter will cost u but if u plan to do it you might as well do it during the swap, if not just go with a stock 700R4 and keep it real cheep until you are out of school and get something to where u make more money.

Shoot man, seems like u know some stuff about cars, start doing some side work for people and make some extra cash. your car is pretty much your resime.

Shoot man I learned how to change my heater core in a 3rd gen camaro in 2 hours without removing the dash (all i had to do was clip a inch off the cover for heater core so it would fit back in without removing the dash) and if u know anything about heater cores shops charge 600-1000 to do the job cause they claim it takes 8 hours to 12 hours. I made money simply buy charging 400 bucks to do the job including me getting the part.

I also got into a camaro and firebird club in my area, and offered my services to do work for people. you dont have to know everything about cars, just know stuff about your car, and fix ones other people own.

I also ran did detail and window tint for dirt cheep. i could only do the curved windows if i cut the tint but i told people that ahead of time, so mostly i just did the side windows for cheep so they would save some money and get there back one done professional with someone who had a heat gun.

I dont doubt money is tight, but theres ways to make some cash.

But your cheepest way out is definetly going to be a 700R4, especally when u get a used one and it may happen to take a crap on you later on.

Its really up to you if u want to rebuild it, I dont know how much HP your motor makes so i dont know how well the 700R4 will hold up

 

Man you have no idea how much appreciate everything. Sombody told me about the 200r4 today, said it come in the older monte carlos and grand nationals. I may look into that but more then likley it ill be a 700r4 as they are easier to find and probably will be cheaper. I really really thank you for offering me your 7004r and I may take you up on that if i havnt replaced mine yet but more then likley will have. The LSX T56 swap is one of my biggest plans, but im not forsure though if thats the route i will go. I may keep a small block and do some crazy **** with it, seems like everybodys going to the LSX engines and i like being diffrent.

Do you guys believe my goal of under $600 is possibile? I think so unless i get charged a fortune for the rebuild and cant find a good convertor.

 

Good luck with it. I doubt you will find a good rebuild for less than $1K.

It would suck to buy a used transmission, pay $600 to rebuild it, then have it last only a year...

 

I have put a 2004r trans in my 77. It is a straight foward install. Only thing you have to get right is the TV cable adjustment. The lockup is also very simple.
The one I used was out of a 88 Monte CZF

 

How much did everything cost you? If you dont mind me asking. Also plz define TV cable and the adjustment on it.

 

Keep in mind tha the 200-4R came with 2 case designs- Chevy and BOP. Make sure you don't get the pricing for a BOP case and then find it won't fit on a Chevy block.

If you spend $300 for a 700-R4 make sure you get one from 88,89 or 90. GM put a better rear planetary gearset and a better reaction sun shell in them in those years.

$300 for a core, $150-$175 for a rebuild kit, $125 for a convertor. $50 for some "specialty" parts. Rebuild it yourself, priceless.

Commercial is over. OK, I'd push hard for you to do it yourself. get the core trans hung on the bench, start taking it apart, and learn something that will last you forever. It's not that tough.